tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post3617015741009144690..comments2024-03-16T08:38:39.031-04:00Comments on My OUTLANDER Purgatory: Let Me Be Frank....Purgatory Carolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04206226666250028550noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-20294734596531446562014-12-02T22:29:58.327-05:002014-12-02T22:29:58.327-05:00THAT is EXACTLY when I started disliking and distr...THAT is EXACTLY when I started disliking and distrusting Frank Randall. It made my skin crawl and the hairs on the back of my neck twitch. Perhaps I was hearing echoes of people I served with during Desert Storm claiming to one another that they had 'an understanding' with their significant others; really creeped me out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-44200383543252427652010-12-01T19:36:37.161-05:002010-12-01T19:36:37.161-05:00Carol so well said!Carol so well said!shannonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-61532326756752042372010-11-30T08:10:03.146-05:002010-11-30T08:10:03.146-05:00There is a HUGE discussion about Frank on Compuser...There is a HUGE discussion about Frank on Compuserve <a href="http://community.compuserve.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ws-books&tid=62222" rel="nofollow">here</a>, if you have some time to browse through it.<br /><br />This is one of those topics (like Laoghaire, and Claire/Lord John) that people debate endlessly, without ever coming to a resolution. I like that, personally. :-)<br /><br />Chat was fun last night. See y'all next week!<br /><br />KarenKaren Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07635855088490793965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-11641444983294274772010-11-29T09:49:52.051-05:002010-11-29T09:49:52.051-05:00Carol...just love your post! Wonderful! I've...Carol...just love your post! Wonderful! I've often thought about what Frank knew of Claire and Bree's future that would make him train Bree as a horsewoman/marksman.Arabellanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-83138511993712194792010-11-28T22:13:37.023-05:002010-11-28T22:13:37.023-05:00With my first read through "Outlander" I...With my first read through "Outlander" I didn't think about this but rereading it after reading the whol series....<br /><br />Frank and Claire's second honeymoon was all about Frank. It was Frank's lineage they were tracking. And it's been a while since I've read the first book and correct me if I'm wrong, cause it's possible, doesn't he initiate sex more than she does?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-26656537333029624382010-11-28T22:02:41.041-05:002010-11-28T22:02:41.041-05:00Frank is my father's generation when the men w...Frank is my father's generation when the men were the heads of their households and the last say in everything. The little women stayed home and took care of their men. That is the way it was for most couples. Some of Frank's attitudes were typical for that time - especially in the 1940s. In the 50s he was ahead of the times when he "let" Claire go to medical school and took responsibility for Bree after school. <br /><br />My guess Jamie's attitudes were not typical for HIS time - that is why we love him and nitpick about all this.Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17683309980561421282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-71170734746847576992010-11-28T21:49:25.957-05:002010-11-28T21:49:25.957-05:00Just saw your new comment, Tracey. Yes, I think s...Just saw your new comment, Tracey. Yes, I think so, too.writex3https://www.blogger.com/profile/10398457678511687175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-3030125730953730212010-11-28T21:47:43.424-05:002010-11-28T21:47:43.424-05:00From Leaf: "Eyes like a good sheepdog....Kind...From Leaf: "Eyes like a good sheepdog....Kindly, maybe, but he won't miss much." <br /><br />I think this is a big ol' clue about Frank's nature and what he knew. I think he knew more than WE know at this point. And I agree...Frank would make a great side-story. He would be good with mysteries, too - I would prefer reading about him than Lord John, though I did like the LJ stuff.writex3https://www.blogger.com/profile/10398457678511687175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-474532094852321152010-11-28T21:43:09.386-05:002010-11-28T21:43:09.386-05:00Sanderson11: Agreed on all accounts. Look, I think...Sanderson11: Agreed on all accounts. Look, I think that at the end of the day, Frank and Claire loved each other, but were two VERY different people. And you know, there's a fine line between "self-centered" and "passionate about something." I would argue that in the middle of reviewing some tricky surgery, Claire would be every bit as "self-centered" as Frank might have been when he was discussing historical stuff with Rev. Wakefield.<br /><br />Here's a question for everyone: suppose Claire had not gone through the stones. Would her marriage to Frank have lasted? I tend to think so.Tracey R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06775331935448970772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-34836616681371288552010-11-28T21:35:56.557-05:002010-11-28T21:35:56.557-05:00hmmm...I don't remember Frank being repelled b...hmmm...I don't remember Frank being repelled by baby Roger. Also, I think Frank's motivation for not telling Claire was his love for Bree. Never got that he thought Claire was his "property". I think Frank was generally supportive of Claire. He encouraged her to take up botany and did support her decision to become a dr. Give the poor guy a break already! After all, he didn't drink, gamble or break the lawmymacintyrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01973578685527489123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-67433423329795789592010-11-28T21:04:37.868-05:002010-11-28T21:04:37.868-05:00I don't like Frank because he reminds me of my...I don't like Frank because he reminds me of my ex. Physically, they are opposites, but the self-centered attitude? Oh, yeah. He expected me to take an interest in his activities, but couldn't be bothered to show any interest in my hobbies. And he cheated.<br /> Frank was adored by cute co-eds every day and Claire was no longer gaga over him. It would take a super man to resist that kind of temptation. <br />Frank was repelled by sticky baby Roger and had high expectations of Claire on the nite of the dinner party for his colleagues. Again, selfish male attitude.<br />I think Frank researched Jamie and kept Claire in the dark deliberately. She was his wife/property and no one was going to take her from him until he decided he was done with her.Terrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-60330451053816413552010-11-28T20:54:41.554-05:002010-11-28T20:54:41.554-05:00@ Carol "Me Frank. You Claire. You my woman. ...@ Carol "Me Frank. You Claire. You my woman. Now I go to meet with Historian. You wear perfume when I get back." <br /><br />HA HA HA HA HA HA HALhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17683309980561421282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-60795358435401556002010-11-28T20:15:21.265-05:002010-11-28T20:15:21.265-05:00Ooooh THANKS Y'ALL - I LOVE all these comments...Ooooh THANKS Y'ALL - I LOVE all these comments. I'm guessing we could talk about Frank all day. Tracey - I think it's interesting you want Frank's Midnight Sun. I thought about that and I don't think I care about Frank's Midnight Sun. I'm kindof ambivalent about him. Again - I am NOT A "Frank hater" - not in the slightest. I just don't really care much about his feelings... and I think it *might* be because he didn't seem to care much about Claire's feelings early on in Outlander. He was just sortof "Me Frank. You Claire. You my woman. Now I go to meet with Historian. You wear perfume when I get back." <br /><br />BUT - then again - maybe FRANK'S Midnight Sun would change my feelings? I'll tell you this - I definitely warmed up to him in A Leaf on the Wind of All Hallows. Absolutely. He was dashing and caring and went out of his way for Marjorie and Roger - and definitely scored a few points. So yes - maybe I *do* want a Midnight Sun for Frank. Hmmm....Purgatory Carolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04206226666250028550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-60889521058861032182010-11-28T19:22:30.168-05:002010-11-28T19:22:30.168-05:00Tracey,
Interesting take on the 3 years Claire wa...Tracey,<br /><br />Interesting take on the 3 years Claire was in the 18th century. I hadn't really pondered Frank starting a relationship at that time, but, you are right, its quite possible. HOWEVER (there is always a HOWEVER with this books, LOL) I think the with "I thought I had been most discreet." comment could very well have been a Red Herring from Diana. What if Frank found something in the history books that required him to get the heck out of Boston and over to England with Bree, pronto. Maybe he was just making up the "most discreet" stuff to give Claire an excuse for leaving. I don't know. The reason I think he didn't cheat is because on CS Diana has said many times (in reference to "Did Frank Cheat") that we are seeing all of this Frank cheating stuff through Claire's eyes, and there really isn't any evidence that he cheated. We'll see... but if he did cheat, I think your scenario (a tryst during the 3 years Claire is missing) is most probable.<br /><br />Sanderson, LOL on the Roger comment!!!! I get constant Eye Rolls over here from my family so I can relate!<br />SallySallyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03326827989120967549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-79618457446877711712010-11-28T18:52:56.739-05:002010-11-28T18:52:56.739-05:00OMG such interesting speculations you gals have! L...OMG such interesting speculations you gals have! Love reading all the comments on Frank. Hope Diana reads these and will give us his story. ps when I said the prayer at thanksgiving dinner I just has to ask for a safe journey blessing for Roger. Everyone asked who Roger was...my hubby was cracking up (hey, he actually came home from work one day because he was worried about Roger and wanted to make sure he survived the hanging)mymacintyrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01973578685527489123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-45762973646279372642010-11-28T18:21:20.448-05:002010-11-28T18:21:20.448-05:00L: Not exactly--although that's certainly a po...L: Not exactly--although that's certainly a possibility! I haven't really thought about whether or not he returned to whatever relationship he may have been involved with before Claire came back--I tended to think it was a different person, since Claire alludes to the fact that there have been multiple liaisons on his part--but what if he's had a constant on/off "someone" the whole time? Hmm....<br /><br />OMG we SERIOUSLY need Frank's Midnight Sun!!!Tracey R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06775331935448970772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-1074441765426493312010-11-28T18:06:02.748-05:002010-11-28T18:06:02.748-05:00Tracy, are you saying you think Frank was planning...Tracy, are you saying you think Frank was planning to go back to England with Bree to pickup the pieces of a relationship he started when Claire disappeared? Great story potential!<br /><br />Love these comments.Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17683309980561421282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-33001557450453499122010-11-28T17:49:21.552-05:002010-11-28T17:49:21.552-05:00The thing about Frank is that, you have to remembe...The thing about Frank is that, you have to remember, he's not the one who's ment to be with Claire. He's not her soul mate. He's not going to be the kind of guy that we say, OH I forgive him everything. Jamie is our hero! He's perfect in our eyes no matter what mistakes he makes. Frank's also a different kind of man than Jamie. Jamie is a romantic who would do anything for the love of his life, is only ever going to be in love with one woman and no matter what, can never have a romance/passion except with Claire. Not saying, physically, can be with someone else,but it doesn't mean the same thing to him. But things weren't like that for Frank/Claire. She was never ment to be with him, at least not forever. However, Frank was a good father!!! I'll give him that. I don't hate Frank but I don't love him either. I think he's the kind of guy who probably would have always cheated on Claire. I do believe he probably had an affair while away from her for the war years. But I don't hate him for it, I'm glad once she found Jamie she couldn't help but feel - NOW THAT IS A MAN FOR ME!!!!bretamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-55037718036046326922010-11-28T16:59:08.482-05:002010-11-28T16:59:08.482-05:00I think someone needs to give Frank a T-shirt that...I think someone needs to give Frank a T-shirt that says "Damned if I do, damned if I don't." I think that's pretty much his life.<br /><br />I DON'T hate Frank for the same reason I don't hate Wee Ho--because we never really see his side of the story. Here's how I see it--he marries a woman he truly loves--is separated from her for what, six years during the war? (BTW, I do think he's faithful to her during those six years, tho I'm sure he did quicken the pulse of many a lass with some grade A flirting.) Then he's reunited with Claire, is ready to start his life with her, and BOOM she disappears. And doesn't come back. <br /><br />At some point, Frank decides, OK, she's not EVER coming back. I miss her desperately, but I need to start living my life without her. As we've deduced, there are no shortage of women who'd be interested in filling Claire's shoes, and it's not long before he meets someone else. And (IMO, anyway), whoever this is is no conveniently-placed-by-Jenny Wee Ho--this is probably someone who would have gone on to become Mrs. Frank Randall Two. He's happy. He's very possibly in love again. Except...<br /><br />BOOM!! Claire comes back.<br /><br />So what does Frank do? IMO, he's built a life for himself. In all likelihood, he's involved--and happy in--another relationship. He still loves Claire, but at this point it's the MEMORY of Claire, who to him has been dead for three years. But Claire is STILL his wife. AND she's pregnant. AND he's not a cad. So he chucks whatever life he's made for himself and returns to his life with Claire. Except...<br /><br />She's totally, completely, irrevocably in love with someone else. And that doesn't go away. EVER. I'm guessing Frank has lain awake more than once watching Claire cry out for Jamie in her sleep.<br /><br />Looking at it through Frank's eyes, it's not surprising that he looks elsewhere for companionship--you can hardly blame the guy. It doesn't make it right morally, but it DOES make it understandable. (BTW, I DO think Frank cheated--check the flashback scene in Voyager where he tells Claire he's taking Bree to England and she accuses him of going there for a woman--he responds with "I thought I had been most discreet." To me, that's an affirmative.)<br /><br />You know who Frank REALLY needs to meet? Laoghaire. Can you imagine THAT conversation??Tracey R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06775331935448970772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-38342680866944746572010-11-28T16:16:18.596-05:002010-11-28T16:16:18.596-05:00Carol,
Thank you Thank you for posting such a gr...Carol, <br /><br />Thank you Thank you for posting such a great topic!!!! I Looove talking about Frank. By the way, who is that in the picture? He is TOTALLY MY FRANK. Love that picture!<br />Anyway, I agreed with most of what you posted EXCEPT the part where Frank should have told Claire about Jamie sooner. Here's the deal, Claire had absolutely no idea that Brianna would be able to time travel. I'm sure that never once crossed her mind...so, If she knew about Jamie possibly not being dead, the only thing she'd be able to do with that information is leave her young child behind to possibly travel to see her lover. The Claire I know, would never do that. So, don't you think Claire would even be more miserable living in the 20th century KNOWING that Jamie was still possibly alive in the 18th century, rather, than thinking that he's actually dead? I do. It was better for her not to find out until the time was right. I'm pretty sure Frank KNOWS that she ends up going back, so why rush it? Even if Frank did know that both Claire and Bree can time travel, I agree with Sanderson, TOO dangerous for Bree to go back as a child. I hear you on the honesty, but, I truely think he did his best to prepare his girl for what may come.<br /><br />I WISH WISH WISH Diana would write an entire book from Frank's point of view retelling what happened in the 1950s and 1960s when Claire was back. Wouldn't that sell so many more copies than the LJG series? I think so. Plus, we could see and feel how Frank really felt about Claire (I think he was crazy about her) and what happened between the 2 of them (I personally think Frank did NOT cheat, Claire just thought so). <br /><br />I'm off to watch your video!<br />SallySallyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03326827989120967549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-88490190840559591112010-11-28T07:03:51.814-05:002010-11-28T07:03:51.814-05:00Sanderson11 you rock! I soooooo agree with you. I ...Sanderson11 you rock! I soooooo agree with you. I don't remember Frank ever beating Claire! I always liked Frank. Sometimes I dinna like Jamie. Frank had his demons to live with and where was it portrayed that he was pompous?? I think a lot of us see him a too much as Black Jack Randall. There is no way he would let his Bree be taken from him and he was right to prep her for life in the 18C. It was a done deal and he did the right thing.Surahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-1556021278944008022010-11-28T06:59:50.043-05:002010-11-28T06:59:50.043-05:00You said it Carol.....just a reminder to those of ...You said it Carol.....just a reminder to those of you that are defending Frank by using Claire's love & his love for Brianna - didn't he accuse Claire of having a fling in Outlander during the war & said he'd forgive her if she did! That was HIS guilt talking. I bet he was cheating then or had cheated before her disappearance!!! <br />SAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-22584389495778439692010-11-27T23:23:25.145-05:002010-11-27T23:23:25.145-05:00Just saw Eat, Pray and Love. David Lyons naked sc...Just saw Eat, Pray and Love. David Lyons naked scene with Julia Roberts. He is Jamie. He is also starring in new TV show The Cape.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-88172026800848841412010-11-27T21:57:26.473-05:002010-11-27T21:57:26.473-05:00sanderson11, if this were FB, I would "like&q...sanderson11, if this were FB, I would "like" your comment!writex3https://www.blogger.com/profile/10398457678511687175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2193939705192575193.post-527113136247654612010-11-27T20:49:12.153-05:002010-11-27T20:49:12.153-05:00ok, you have a child you love. You know the living...ok, you have a child you love. You know the living conditions of the 18th century...especially for girls. No rights, no education, no opportunities, primitive health care, a land ravaged by war etc. Would you want your child to be taken back there?? Not me. And If I had to lie to protect her? Easy for me! Frank loved his child. He was trying to protect her. And, Bree loved him. Why do we forgive Jamie everything (don't forget his keeping his marriage to Lowhore from Claire because he was afraid of losing her) Well Frank didn't want to lose his family. I can forgive him that. He made mistakes,sure, but so did Jamie-they are MEN after all. We really do need a story about Frank's feelings about this whole situation. Pleeeaase Diana....mymacintyrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01973578685527489123noreply@blogger.com