Sunday, September 17, 2017

Outlander Season 3, Ep 302: Surrender

37 comments:

  1. Just read the comments from 301 and agree with most except the haters. Do they not know how hard it is to do what you two do?? You guys do a great job and you are entertaining...not the robot style of commentary at all. Now to comment on episode 302. Frank is a bit annoying but I understand the character and why but I get this feeling that he would not be happy unless Claire totally worshiped him in every way and that can be quite exhausting. I still think that their relationship would not of succeeding after the war even if she didn't go through the stones. I loved the scene with Jamie and Fergus when he lost his hand and can't wait until the adult Fergus shows up. So far verra happy with this season.

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    1. Thanks Glee. I totallyyyyy appreciate that because let me tell ya; IT AIN'T EASY! LOLOL! Tracey and I have polar opposite schedules...so getting together for the season is not always easy. But...and this is a major BUT...we LOVE doing the videos and discussing with you guys afterward. So it's our pleasure to figure it all out and get it done. :)

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  2. Thank you ladies, for doing what you do! I have been enjoying your recaps since Season 1 and I'm so glad I stumbled upon your site!

    I just have a general comment. I've mostly enjoyed the series, but I almost feel sorry for the people that are only watching the show or are watching the show BEFORE reading the books. Viewers already know that Jamie and Claire are separated for 20 years and then get back together. Reading the first three books of the series without knowing what was going to happen, was such a wonderful experience. I admit that when I finished the first book, I actually wasn't that thrilled with it, but I found myself drawn back to see what happened. And the way the books jumped back and forth, I had to check and make sure I was reading them in the right order (which was intriguing and delicious). It was just a wonderful treat to have to wait for it and "read through it" to see what happens. I just feel bad for people that will miss out on that experience. That's all I had to say for now! :)

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    1. Agree, agree, agree, Anon!! I was JUST thinking this morning that even the littlest of things aren't always known by the viewers. For instance, they don't know that Jamie prefers to remain clean shaven, so it wasn't really a big deal when Mary MacNab shaved him in the show. (NOT that I'm blaming the show and neither are you; it's just so great that we were privy to that knowledge!) :)

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  3. Love your commentaries!! I respected this version of Mary McNabb. I think in the books she was more Jenny's instrument to give Jamie some humanity and kindness before going off to prison. Mary's a very sad character as written, but this version gave her some agency and she comes across as a strong woman - as one would have to be to survive post-Culloden in the Highlands.

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  4. So enjoyed your perception. I agree no good or bad guys. My hubby called Frank a wuss he felt for him said he is the only perfect person in Outlander but not now says he's weak. I liked the episode pulled at heart strings.

    Carol I agree I think they are preparing us for a bomb I believe it will be Leghair. Jamie will happily pursue at the dance ready to start a new life moving on and will ask her to marry him. This explains Claire telling Jamie to talk to Leghair Claire scheming with her in S2 Leghair will be like Frank and see how Leghair will not be able to let go of her hate for Claire and push Jamie away like Frank does Claire. This show lives paralels I may be wrong. I liked the episode Jamie was a broken man. Jenny was great Mary awesome. Although Jenny saying Mary was in child bearing years will there be another child of Jamie's my mind strays when they intentionally include things like that. We all already know she can still bare children.

    I reined it all back now. I agree a little over the top with everyone hates Claire in academia and Joe also. People keep those feelings to themselves and this was the North not the south. Overall great episode love you both so much! Thank you for taking time to share your thoughts!

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  5. Another fun discussion. My thoughts ... I thought the twin beds were ridiculous. Sorry, way too cheesy. They just would have slept in the same bed with their back to each other. JMHO Confession: I changed the channel for a few seconds during the Mary and Jamie in the cave scene. Just couldn't watch it. Likewise, I didn't pay much attention to the first Claire and Frank 'scene". My childish 'fingers in the ears la - la - la' moment. HaHa The Fergus hand - eek, too graphic for me. I do love me some Fergus, the arm gestures to the soldiers - LMAO. Until next week ... :)

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    1. I agree with the twin beds! They actually went and picked out separate beds and had the delivery men come take the full size and replace it with twins? No way they would have aired that business! Unless, of course, that's what gives our Millie/Nellie the green light???

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  6. Hi Girls!

    All in all, I do think that everyone has done as good a job as possible with translating a superior story into a TV format, but of course, I'm a bit of a possessive weirdo about all this, lol. Overall, thumbs up!!

    I agree, this episode could've used a little more lightheartedness in Jamie's cave living days when he'd see his family. One of my favorite little scenes in the books was Jamie shaving and joking with the boys who would watch him. They were asking about a woman's body & hair and Jamie commented that it's in the shape of an arrow to point your way home. ;-) (And then felt guilty when Jenny came lumbering in very pregnant.) Was I the only one trying to not yell at the TV, "Stuff your red hair up in the bonnet, that's the whole point!"?

    I do love Tobias as Frank and he brings such depth to the character, but give me a little less acquiescence, please! Oh, but I love Tobias ...

    Jenny and Mary are fantastic. Rock on, Mary! I love TV Jenny much more than Book Jenny. As far as the Redcoats searching the house, what kind of poor search techniques overturn the underwear drawer but don't even poke a head into the other rooms? Get in the armoir, Jamie!

    I'm happy to see Claire in med school and bring on Joe Abernathy. I'm getting a bit of creep vibe from the neighbor gal. I wonder if she sticks around or is a vehicle to just lighten up the situation?

    During the fireplace sex scene, I was expecting Claire to blurt out Jamie's name! Obviously, Frank was too ...

    Jenny yelling as Jamie was taken away brought a tear to my eye. "I'll never forgive you" seemed to be followed with a silent "if anything ever happens to you!" Sniff, sniff.

    See you all next week.
    -Donna

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  7. Ok I usually don't comment and I do love your videos BUT... I have to mention one thing. Having grown up in Florida which is not as "southern " as most of the south, and considering that Claire started medical school in the 1950s, and let's not forget that Boston had some major racial issues, it seems to me that the reactions during the medical school scene would have been that bad and probably worse. The reason I mentioned growing up in Florida is that I remember the first year African American kids came to my middle school in 1967 that both teachers and students boycotted our school for several months. I've lived in New England and in the South and I know that for the time period we're talking about I've witnessed bigotry that was way worse than what we saw in this episode. I thought it was realistic as well as the previous mysogeny we saw in the last episode.
    Again I love your videos and I don't mean to be negative it's just that I remember the bad old days.

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    1. THANK YOU, Nancy! You're not being negative at all. I am so happy you shared your perspective. You lived through segregation at school...and we, thankfully, did not. ❤️

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    2. I agree and the one negro man making friends with the one woman would have been one more layer of outrage. Really, they would have both just have had to persevere on their own. Va here

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  8. I thought the scene between Jamie and Mary was very tender... love the expression in his eyes through out this episode. Sam is doing an exceptional job. I can feel his hurt.

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    1. "I can feel his hurt." YES!!! Exactly. It tore my guts out, as Jamie would say! :(

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  9. Episode2, Season 3
    Surrender

    My initial reaction was “pleasantly surprised”. I was not looking forward to this episode, because I knew what was coming, and watching Jamie and Claire connect with other people sexually is unsettling to me (no matter what the circumstances). The way Ann Kenney wrote this week’s show though, changed my perception on the way I interpreted those encounters in the book. Ironically, it was during the sex scenes, in this episode, that I felt Jamie’s and Claire’s since of the loss for each other the most; and it was all accomplished with one small gesture- closing their eyes while having sex with other people. Who knew that could hold so much emotional weight? (It was also a great way to connect Jamie and Claire in the two storylines.) I wonder now if this will continue...will Jamie always close his eyes when he is with other women? Or Claire with Frank? If she ever has sex with Frank again that is...more on that later. If this is the case, the emotional impact, once they are reunited, could be huge!

    I agree with those who thought Jamie’s red hair streaming out of that ridiculous brown “bonnet” didn’t work. What was the point lol? He looked ruff, a shell of a man, and for 6 years no less!! I get the no talking, I do, but for these last two episodes, we have gotten so little of Jamie expressing his feelings verbally. In the book, we get his inner dialogue and know what he is thinking, so it works for me there, but on the show, Jamie has to express so much with his forlorn looks and stares. I just wish there could have been a little more for him to say, like “Lord that she may be safe, she and the child”. I would have loved that while he was sitting in the cave lighting a candle or something.

    I also think it would have been nice for Fergus to make a reference to Claire or have some memory of her. The show made so much more out of his relationship with Claire, in season 2; she really was a mother to Fergus. So, I think it would have been nice for Fergus to remember her fondly at some point in the episode, just so we know she is always in his thoughts too.

    cont..

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    1. Jan - I agree that the way Anne Kenney wrote the sex scenes did soften them for me more than the books. They made so much more sense here. And especially for Jamie and closing his eyes made the sex with Mary more acceptable to me. The same for Claire closing her eyes with Frank.

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  10. The separate stories of Claire and Jamie working in tandem this week was better than last week for me. It flowed better. Claire’s story was very well done, I thought. A three beat of her trying to reconnect with Frank sexually. First, we see her starting to loose her numbness over the loss of Jamie, she’s starting to feel desire again (naked Jamie dream). Second, she tells Frank she “misses her husband” and has sex with him while keeping her eyes closed. Third, we see Claire initiate sex by the fire, but this time Frank stops, asking her to open her eyes...she can’t, because he’s not Jamie. Lastly, we see them sleeping in twin beds, implying that Frank and Claire will have a plutonic marriage moving forward..No more sex for Claire?? Like for 20 years?? Claire becomes the monk?? THAT did not happen in the book. Claire and Frank had sex throughout their marriage, some bad some good. This is an interesting twist the show is taking. But what about Jamie? How will this make viewers feel, when Claire has basically shelved her sexual desires because she can’t get passed Jamie’s memory, and Jamie continues to have sex with other women? For me, being the romanic that I am, it will be a hard pill to swallow, because it will feel like Jamie has moved on, putting his love and memory of Claire aside while Claire was unable to do so. The feminist in me is also bothered by it, because it feels like they’re saying women can go without sex, but men can’t. I know I’m projecting, and if this episode handled the hard material this well, who’s to say it won’t continue; maybe they will pleasantly surprise me again:) One more point on the matter, if Claire and Frank have agreed to this arrangement, doesn’t it give Frank the ability to have affairs without feeling guilty or looking like a cad? I mean, Claire’s not putting out.... One more way for Frank to be put in a better light on the show, than he is in the book. It’s almost like he’s justified in sleeping around. Frank’s the victim, and it’s all Claire’s fault! (eye roll) It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. lol

    Bits and pieces...

    I liked Mary MacNab, and I wasn’t planning to lol. I wonder if we will see her again in the future.....and how will that be?
    Jenny was great in this episode, great acting. But this is the book that completely turned me off of her character. Will wait and see.
    Jamie and Mary looked so awkward as Jamie tries to kiss her with his eyes closed, so sad:(
    Fergus’s hand!! Good god, did it have to be so graphic???
    Frank and Millie...oh yeah, that’s going to happen, I think. They are working too hard to set that up.
    Where have all the children gone?? Seven children are hard to hide. Where were Ian and Jenny’s kids??
    Baby Bree!!!! Good lord that child is adorable!! I HATE that Jamie never held her:(

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  11. Love the recap as usual! My only complaint about it being so long is that by the time it's over, I've forgotten half the things I wanted to say!

    I agree with you ladies about the Mary McNab scene-well done and I accepted it better last night than when I was reading it. Wasn't thrilled with the kissing either,Tracy, but at least they weren't literally down each other's throats!

    And Frank....I've just never liked him. I'm with you, Carol. He hadn't seen her in years-traumatic ones!-and he's spending more time with the reverand than reconnecting her. He wanted something she just never was. They really were never together for that long between the war and the stones. And I always kinda thought he was telling her that he'd had some indiscretions when he asked her about the "ghost" in Season 1. I think you girls are right; men have fragile egos and I'm sure Frank felt Jamie between them just as much as Claire did.

    I read someone else's astute comment about Mary being able to have children. NO!!! I don't think I could handle that!!!!

    Until next week!

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  12. Hi girls! Great recap as usual. Just love the tribute to Mary McNab. Agreed! In general, I dig how you both hone in on some of the secondary characters and really investigate them. Carol- as for the whole thing with Claire meeting Joe (and maybe someone else will also say this)... Chapter 18 Roots... ' I had known Joe from the beginning of my medical training, He stood out among the other interns as Boston General, just as I did. I was the only woman among the budding interns; Joe was the only black intern. " So, we got that info in reflection/ exposition...And no, it didn't take me too long to find it... I remembered that we got that back story just before Claire went back through the stones...to underscore the significance of that friendship and why she would entrust her assets and Bree's trust to him.

    Re: the kiss. I was OK with that because it was so awkward and pathetic. It was as if Jamie kind of forgot how to do that and looked it. That moment when he licked his lips felt like he was so awkward...it was very touching. He really looked like he was touching some ancient tenderness that had been locked away and that is was hard for him to let down in that way. I thought Sam was amazing in that scene.

    I cracked up with the Cave talk... like he was never home! I noticed the same thing- In the books, he only came out at night...and visited only once a month.

    OK--- and hey, ditch the haters- you two are fantastic and as you say... if people don't like the show, don't watch it! :)

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  13. RE: Jamie hiding w/wee Ian - Boomer that I am, I had a flashback to Alan Alda's scene in M*A*S*H, where he and a bunch of civilians were hiding from the enemy, and his conscious memory was telling him that he suffocated a noisy chicken, when in reality was that he had to kill a baby to keep it from crying and giving them away.

    RE: Fergus and Jamie- A developing dynamic, as the maturing 'son' Fergus wanting to both emulate his heroic 'father' and challenge himself to measure himself against Jamie as a man.

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    1. I had the same thought about the MASH episode!

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  14. Love your videos!! They are great and always have me laughing. :) I agree with you Carol about Episode one and the poor sad hausfrau stereotype...ugh...so over it.

    I also loved how the TV show has made me like/appreciate Mary McNab. Who knew?! The TV show gave me a completely different perspective on that whole situation. I also was so excited when Joe Abernathy showed up just like I was when Hal made his appearance in Episode one. I love Hal!!

    Thanks Ladies for all that you do!!

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  15. Great recap as usual, thank you ladies and as I told you before, you are my second highlight after Outlander! One of the topics you discussed was about Jamie and how he would brush his teeth.
    Well, a few years ago an Egyptian friend of mine gave me a teeth cleaning twig that is made from a twig of a tree. It can help to prevent tooth decay and gum disease and are truly amazing, much better than the toothbrushes of today and you do not need toothpaste! I think it is safe to say that they might have used something similar.


    Enjoy your week!
    Annette in Greece

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    1. Just googled! You can buy them online! 👍🏼

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  16. "Don't Close Your Eyes"

    I know you loved him
    A long time ago
    Even now in my arms
    You still want him I know
    But darling this time
    Let your memories die
    When you hold me tonight
    Don't close your eyes

    Don't close your eyes
    Let it be me
    Don't pretend it's him
    In some fantasy
    Darling just once
    Let yesterday go
    You'll find more love
    Than you've ever known
    Just hold me tight
    When you love me tonight
    And don't close your eyes

    Maybe I've been a fool
    Holding on all this time
    Lyin' here in your arms
    Knowing he's in your mind
    But I keep hoping some day
    That you'll see the light
    Let it be me tonight
    Don't close your eyes

    Don't close your eyes
    Let it be me
    Don't pretend it's him
    In some fantasy
    Darling just once
    Let yesterday go
    You'll find more love
    Than you've ever known
    Just hold me tight
    When you love me tonight
    And don't close your eyes

    Don't close your eyes
    Let it be me
    Don't pretend it's him
    In some fantasy
    Darling just once
    Let yesterday go
    You'll find more love
    Than you've ever known
    Just hold me tight
    When you love me tonight
    And don't close your eyes

    Just hold me tight
    When you love me tonight
    And don't close your eyes

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    1. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

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    2. But, she is not only closing her eyes because she may be thinking about Jamie, but perhaps she can not face making love to the face of BJR???

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    3. Love this poem and YES, Judy! I was thinking the same thing. Her relationship with Frank, second time around was so doomed.
      Black Jack Randall tried to rape her, almost cut her nipple off, beat her up, raped her husband, was repeatedly cruel to her. Imagine looking into the face of someone that looked so similar.
      Tracy, I agree with you, if it wasn't the "closing her eyes thing," it would have been something else. I also cringed when he called her "Baby" seemed really out of character for Frank and their relationship even in S1.
      Love your video and commentary, always makes me laugh "He's never in the cave" and I agree, it's so sad, I wish they had included some of the levity that was in the book. After the show, I always look forward to your take on things. Thank you Carol and Tracy for doing what you do. And Tracy, "brake a leg" with the play.

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    4. Sorry for the spelling error, Tracey, not Tracy :(

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  17. I think I would just like to hang out at Lallybroch for awhile.
    I'm good with babies,venison,copious amounts of laundry.. comfortable around livestock. Lord knows Jenny and Mary look like they could use the help. Maybe I could encourage Jenny to stay out of her brothers life...especially down the road.
    I remember loving Lallybroch in the books. In fact that was one of my biggest disappointments of season one was that I wanted just one more episode of life at Lallybroch.

    What I would add to the discussion this week is that most of the intimate moments, looked very familiar to me. Claire and Frank in front of the fireplace felt frantic, just a tad like the "makeup session" minus the knife with Jamie in season one. Also, did anyone else see the Mary/Jamie scene as a bizarro world version of the wedding scene from season one? The actress who played Mary, who looks lovey in real life pictures, looked like a hardened version of Claire. She untied her own gown, took Jamie's hand and placed it on her own chest. The lighting in the cave reminded me of the wedding night attic room. The loneliness was palpable in that scene. To quickly feel that loneliness is so important to the story, or you can't get the big payoff down the road. I think the show is doing an excellent job of developing that.

    I always thought that DG's Scottish Prisoner was the best companion type book to describe Jamie's agonizing longing for Claire, the child he never met and prayed daily that they had survived.

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    1. Damn, Susan...those are some seriously awesome comparisons! I have to go back and watch again!!! 👏🏻

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    2. 💘💘💘💘 you girls - even if I remain firmly Team Frank. I think the writers did this character a disservice this season, but they had to fill in the blanks without Herself guiding them.

      Love your videos and have a cheeky suggestion. Allow a MOP Guest to chime in from time to time. I feel like you are really good fun and talk back to you every week! 😎😎😎. Just a suggestion ,)

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  18. Sorry if this is a repeat - but it appears as if my computer ate the comment I just tried to post. I finally had a chance to finish watching - busy week - but loved your comments. I have a few thoughts. 1. Mary McNabb - why hasn't she married - recall many of the men were killed at Culloden, so not sure how many single eligible men she would be meeting. 2, Don't you think some of the disconnect between Claire and Frank has to be affected by her miscarriage, and the uncertainty has to be on her mind. And if she loses THIS child, she not only loses the child, but loses her reason for returning to Frank and loses her last physical hold with Jamie. 4. Twin beds - we had already seen Frank on the couch. Frank may feel twin beds is preferable and perhaps by being in the same room he would have hope that something might happen in the future. 5. IMHO Millie has been introduced as a future partner-in-crime for a Frank liason??

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  19. Hi gals! I've been enjoying your S3 recaps, but finding the time to comment has been a challenge. Not much of a loss for 301 because after praising the post-Culloden scenes, I probably would've just typed TMF TMF TMF over and over again. However, Carol covered that very well;)
    As for episode 302, I again felt Jamie's side of the narrative was the more compelling. However, the hair really annoyed me. In the book, not only does Jamie actually HIDE his hair under that hat, he also visits Lallybroch under the added cover of night. He does NOT put his entire family at risk by showing up there in broad daylight with a huge beacon of a wild red mane. He is cautious and stealthy, not carelessly stupid. I really didn't need to see Jamie looking like a feral, escaped mental patient long on the run to know he had suffered for a few years. Kind of like I didn't need to be hit over the head with such heavy-handed male chauvinist caricatures to understand that it was hard for women to pursue non-traditional roles. I guess I wish the show would trust it's viewers' intelligence a bit more.
    I liked Mary McNabb, and Laura Donnelly was amazing...as usual. I've had more than enough of Frank, especially this version of "saint" Frank, but I do hope we get to see a few of the true Frank flaws before he literally hits the road. I'm also hoping an old friend of Jamie's will pop up in Ardsmuir.
    As always, I appreciate you both for making these recaps. They never fail to give me a few good laughs. These days, we all need that!
    Dolittle

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  20. I was uncomfortable with Frank bringing in the baby to Claire. By agreeing to bring up the child, it gave him power over an unimaginable situation. His sterility prevented siring his own child so he would take over Claire's lover's child, thus giving Frank control.
    When Claire lay beside him, breathless, sighing, and gasping, it was a normal reaction to not having a regular sex life. Too bad she didn't think of a different position so that she wouldn't have to look at Frank's BJR face.

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