Sunday, October 29, 2017

MOP Video: Outlander Season 3 Ep 307: Creme de Menthe

74 comments:

  1. Girls she wasn't a doctor in season 1 now she took an oath and in the books she does the same thing saving people that want to kill her. Remember when the guy who kidnapped her was hurt? She saved him.

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  2. Jamie spent 20yrs praying that his child survived then when he found it was a girl, she survived and had a full life, in other words his prayers were answered. He should have fallen apart

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  3. Tracey and Carol, great analysis of the episode! Last week's reunion was so satisfying...... for the most part. And now this. My husband and I were screaming at the TV. Obnoxious, know-it-all Claire has once more emerged. I understand the ethics of a healer, but this was totally ridiculous. This man came into her room, threatened to rape and kill her, and attacked her. She defended herself successfully, and then tried to save him. Come ON! Jamie told her that she would wind up being accused of his murder despite the circumstances. She never listens to him, never. She's in an alien century, but she knows better than anyone else, and she's always right. Honestly, I couldn't stand her tonight. Why couldn't she put her relationship with Jamie first? She's been back a day and a half. She gave up everything to return to Jamie, and now she's dismantling the life he has built.........not that he is not responsible for some of his problems.

    Remember when Claire called Jamie a sadist? She was wrong about that. He has to be a masochist to perpetuate his fervent devotion to her.

    Agree with you all about her lecturing Jamie. That was the final straw. Most of this was not even in the book.

    Also, the holier-than-thou attitude about the sanctity of life was hypocritical. In the book, she was under a cloud at the hospital before she went back to the past. I don't remember clearly, but I think a mercy killing was involved.

    And poor Ian. He has certainly aged. I'll bet the years won't have been kind to Jenny either. And there stand Jamie and Claire looking exactly the same. It's like magic. But, I don't mind that. If anything Jamie might look even younger than he did. He has that boyish quality that never seems to age.

    I really get it about your outrage concerning the "going to pieces". While I wasn't really bothered by it, I'm still seething about my own complaint about season one and the way that ended. I felt it was crucial that Jamie and Claire be reconciled sexually at the abbey . That began his healing in the book and though he had some problems, he had to be united completely with Claire before going on. Instead, this caused a total distortion of his character in Dragonfly. I'm still really upset about that. It's really important to me that Jamie's character remain true to the original story. That is my big "going to pieces" moment. Since that treatment of the plot, I've found I don't get upset about other changes, some of which I've actually enjoyed.

    I have to say I found this episode to be the worst of the season. As a whole though, I've really enjoyed this season.

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  4. Thanks for another wonderful review!!

    Two little bits of foreshadowing when Jamie says "I'd give up everything I have for us to be together". Yes, he pretty much does. Second, the thing Ian was worried about was a press gang taking Young Ian. I guess that would have been a problem in a port city like Edinburgh?

    I'm so distracted by the over-the-top and unrealistic brothel scenes. Jamie standing downstairs conducting "business" and asking Mr. P was he there for an afternoon romp? Unless I heard that wrong. Hard to tell over the sounds of moaning.

    As much as Claire was self-righteous in this episode - I felt Jamie's character was really off as well. Defending staying in a brothel? Sad to leave? Really? And now that we've actually seen his "cot" in the print shop. That room was amazingly large and beautiful compared to the cramped quarters of the brothel. I got the impression in the books Jamie only stayed at the brothel when he was out late....not ALL the time.

    My hat goes off to Ian's reaction to seeing Claire. Shock, sadness, disbelief, relief, anger, happiness...he gave it all.

    To be honest, I didn't care much for Jamie OR Claire this episode. And I've no idea why the show would give away such a shocking moment that is to come. I, too, threw my book across the room.

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  5. This was not my favorite episode going back to 306 Claire and Brianna were Jamie‘s touchtone for 20 years Brianna was the child of Jamie‘s and Claire’s. Great recap as usual. The other posts have said it all The only addition I want to comment upon is the change of Archie Campbell from minister and Edinburgh Thien to fortuneteller and Margaret has become a Seer. They are off to the Indies to meet a wealthy patrons Claire touches Margaret and she gasps gleep gleep abendowi abendowi this is the cave on Hispaniola were Gellis meet her demise this sets up Gillis interest in the Fraser prophecy by the Brohn Seer

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    1. Thank you, yes, what is going on with the Campbells?? Tthey're totally different people in the show, and although I have a feeling there's a reason for it, still, I did Not like the almost jovial Mr. Campbell, he's so severe and put upon in the books, its an odd change...and Margaret...oh dear...oooooh dear....nope.

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  6. You mentioned Gerard Butler years ago I saw on YouTube his Portrayal As Jamie

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  7. I think I liked this episode the least of all this season's episodes and maybe other seasons as well. Claires attitude and behavior just didn''t make sense within this universe. She seemed pouty and pissed for a good deal of the episode. Her arrogance and pride at being a surgeon was beneath her, her lack of concern for Jamie the man she pined over for 20 years was just ridiculous. She's back for one day and she has a piss poor attitude in less than 24 hours. I just don't get it

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    1. Well put Shellie. I didn't get it either. Claire darted a nasty look toward Jamie when she started to attend to the exciseman and the scene in the apothecary shop was so weird.

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  8. I am relatively new to your show, but you two are hugely entertaining and I am having so much fun listening t you. I completely agree with you about Claire, your comments had me in tears and when husband Tom appeared on the screen with his analysis, I was laughing out loud that my family was staring at me with concerned faces. Claire and her medical BS is getting a little old. I am always in awe with her abilities, but when she puts the lives of loved ones into danger, because she needs to apply her medical skills, I just lose my patience with her. She is bossing everyone around and is just super annoying. I know many viewers will disagree but i just couldn’t keep it in . Other than annoying Claire, I liked the episode, there was never a dull moment. I host viewing parties each week and take great pleasure in watching with my non book reader friends. I am so jealous of them. I was like that in season one , every episode was a surprise because I didn’t have the knowledge of the books. So my friends were totally shocked by the ending and are mad as hell at Jamie for having another wife. They did not see this coming. Now they are demanding to know who the wife is. Some of them actually guessed correctly but I put on my poker face. They keep on texting me and begging me to let them know, so I decided to send out a group message to tell them that this was not in the book. In the books Jamie didn’t have another wife. At least the late night texting has finally stopped. Next episode will be awesome .

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  9. Comment for this episode:
    Pros:
    1) Fergus and Young Ian
    2) The only time we see Jamie and Claire actually being loving this episode: “Sassenach, you came thousands of miles and 200 years to find me. I’m grateful that you are here no matter the cost. I would give up everything I have for us to be together again. Don’t you see? Since you left, I’ve been living in the shadows. Then, you walked into the print shop and it was as if the sun returned and cast out the darkness.” – JAMMF
    Cons: *Spoiler Warning*
    1) Brothel. Nuf said.
    2) I get that they had to change some things to adapt it for TV, but they completely changed the reasoning and/or tone with a lot this episode.

    a) CrΓ¨me de Menthe excise man. Why did they have to make it a bigger thing than it was in the books? Book version: man attacks Claire, Willoughby shoots him, Claire attempts to save man, man dies. None of this dragged out “I have to relieve pressure in his brain” nonsense.

    b) One-Eyed Exciseman, the burning of the printshop and Young Ian. To me, what happened in the show felt kinda like the opposite of the book.

    Book: Exciseman was already in print shop when Young Ian got there. Young Ian thought he killed excise man in the fire. Young Ian sleeps with the whore because he needed comfort and to forget about the day’s events.

    Show: Young Ian sleeps with whore in print shop so was there before exciseman. Exciseman escapes with seditious pamphlets.

    c) Jamie and Claire. Unless I’m mistaken and read the books wrongly, J and C were still in a reunion bubble at this point in the books, even with all the excise men and print shop burning stuff. There were still a lot unsaid and issues to be tackled, but the fights didn’t happen until Leg Hair appears.

    d) Speaking of other wife, I really did not like that they gave away the surprise in this episode. The hint in last episode was acceptable, but I prefer if they had just left it at that until next episode.

    Carol, glad to see Tom’s back. Remember in one of the previous recaps this season, you said something along the line of you’re scared they did a good job for that episode because they’re compensating for something they screwed up in later episodes? I’m still reserving judgment until next week, but I have a feeling it’s either episode 6, 7 or 8. Hoping I’m wrong about next week’s episode.

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    1. Nice breakdown, Karina, thanks! - Lynn

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  10. We have been spoiled with scripts in the hands of Matt Roberts and Toni Graphia who are book lovers. One of the new writers wrote this one and I think that is what is behind the change of tone (ha, tones) and story changes. I get that the scripts are sort of approved before shooting but this one made this episode weird, just weird.

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  11. Hello ladies!

    Kim S. non book reader here....haven't watched your wonderful video yet (as they always are), but just had to comment on the episode before I exploded!

    So yeah I hated this episode with a capital HATE. Like Medieval Muse said, I felt Jaime and Claire were both off. It was a totally different tone from last week and I do think it has to do with different writers syndrome, much like what happens with soaps. Characters act/ feel a certain way with specific writers and are completely different with others. Plus, I think this episode just felt like filler. Things happened to move the story, but it was just weird.

    I didn't mind Claire and the medical stuff. As much as she said she was ready for the change, you can't get out of a mindset over night. It's gonna take a bit of time. And I think the bossiness comes from the OR. I think a lot of surgeons can be pretty bossy in that setting - and they have to be.

    The only bright spots for me in this episode were Ian, young Ian, and the dash of Fergus.

    I don't like the looks of the preview for next week. Even though I am a non-reader I have the gist of what is coming and how it plays in the book. I am ok with how that goes, but the preview makes it seem that they have changed that quite a bit. Again, not being a reader I may be wrong, but I just don't like the looks of it.

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  12. I missed the older Ian / Claire book meeting ... where Claire was hiding under the covers and Ian was berating Jamie about him living in a 'kittle/koosie' ... saying he didn't know him anymore and Jamie, then, saying, "let me introduce you to my companion" ... I wanted to see that scene so much ... I, also, hate the brothel scenes ... ridiculous!

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    1. Yes!! That was such a good scene for comic relief! Missed opportunity--again:(

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  13. Yep I didn't like this episode either. Too much brothel, too much of bossy/ridiculous Claire and did anyone else catch the super hero landing by Jamie when jumping in the burning print shop to save young Ian? Funny but yet out of place.

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    1. I loved that with his coat tails flying. He's batman!

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    2. Ya know, I watched that superhero landing a few times and I never paid much attn to it in the forefront of my brain, but in the background, I was thinking, "WHAT THE EFF?" It was like he did this huge jump...but was still inside the shop. Editing mishap? Totes confused. LOL I see a meme in there somewhere... ;)

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  14. It was definitely a Chinese fire drill type episode for sure! I was hoping for more conversation time between Claire and Jamie but the plot didn't really allow time (except for the argument about Frank and raising Brianna). I did love the line when Claire said something about a white lie and Jamie said "I didn't know lies came in different colors." You are right about her discovering that he is hardened since she last saw him. It's like his moral compass has had to adapt to the adversities that he went through while she was gone.

    I didn't understand Jamie not having a problem with continuing to live in the brothel. You would think he'd want to protect Claire's reputation as there would be gossip if they continued to live there. Claire would also want to have access to a kitchen as well (not to mention getting away from the constant background noises).

    It was heartbreaking about the print shop burning down and seeing Jamie watching it and knowing that his business is lost. Wish they could have filmed the scene with Ian senior there so there wouldn't have been so much background distraction.

    I haven't caught up with reading Voyager yet so didn't know about the big surprise with the wife, but I suspected in the last episode when they mentioned having to check with Neil Gowan and that something wouldn't still hold since Claire was back.

    A newbie MOP question: how are you able to get your video posts done so quickly after the episode? Do you get a preview screening? Or maybe you are secret time travelers and you jump ahead to next week's episode and then zip back? :) Maybe that fridge in the background is actually a standing stone (with snacks inside).

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    1. HA! It's the time traveling for sure! ;) No seriously, we get a screener each week. Without it, we'd never be able to make these videos, edit them and get them posted on our various forms of social media in enough time to be relative to the current conversation about the show. And let me tell ya, it's really, really difficult to do, even with the screeners. As Tracey has mentioned, her life is upside down with work these days, and mine is upside down with keeping my family on track with MOP Tom undergoing daily cancer treatment in another state. And that is so not said to make anyone feel bad or as a "poor us." EVERYONE has their life issues - and we appreciate that fact more than you know. I just like to make sure everyone knows we positively LOVE AND APPRECIATE your guys and YOU ALL are the reason we do it. You guys all ROCK with all this commentary...and our little MOP family is my only outlet or "me time" these days. I canna speak for Tracey, but I'd be willing to bet she'd say the same. ❤️

      PS - ROFLMAO about the fridge. πŸ˜‚

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    2. Ah, mystery solved regarding the videos (though transporting via the fridge would still be a cool thing!). I really appreciate the time you both put into the videos and hope that all goes well with Tom's treatment. I'm a medical librarian so if you ever need any information, just let me know!

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  15. While I've never commented before, I watch your videos almost every week. It is SO nice to feel like I have someone to share my biggest guilty pleasure with:-) I love how you break the episodes down and to see if you have the same reaction and comparisons between the books and the series. I felt the need to weigh in on the print shop scene because I completely, 100% agree with you that it was such a let down after waiting all that time for there not to be the same emotional reaction to the pictures and discussion about what Bri is like and then to bring up Willie at that time. I like you, love the books and the show and at times am disappointed that things from the books have to be left out, but again understand that they can't always depict them the same way on TV. However, I also have liked some of the changes they have made and thought they made the story even better. Unfortunately, I agree that this is one of the times where I was REALLY disappointed. Like Tracey, this is one of my, if not my favorite scene from all of the books and I have been eagerly anticipating seeing Sam and Cat act it out. Oh well, I can't think of any other scenes where it will be so important and I'm looking forward to watching the TV version and also your breakdown afterwards. Thanks for your videos - I love them:-)

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  16. Hey you two lovely ladies, it's Alberta Lynn here again... watched your excellent recap last night - only took one shot of Drambui with me to the tub (yes, I watch you from my soaker tub, and my laptop sits on the you-know-what), but I should have taken the whole frickin' bottle with me. All I can say about that episode which I of course haven't seen due to no tv by choice, is, "Oh for shit's sakes! Are you kidding me?" Is it being turned into a soap opera with bonus porn? The truth of Jamie and Claire is definitely being re-written, as is actual history, apparently. Chinese were treated like Diana wrote about, and foot binding was real and did happen. The story is becoming so convoluted that I wonder if there is an attempt to lose the book reader rants after each episode because the show will become a stand-alone with its own story line? Hmmm. Well, the scenery and costumes are always great, right? We are seeing some good actors we haven't seen before. (trying to find some positive things to say here lol!) Ah weel, you and I, Carol, can have a sleepover to talk about the book and slainte a few...while you, Miss Tracy, need to have a nap! Wow you are busy! Hang in there MOP Beauties! Thanks for the recap, and bundle up your energies for the surprises of the next episode!

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    1. oops, my apologies, Tracey (with an 'e'), I will try to remember that! Also wanted to say, Tracey, I like to hear your Actor's point of view, it does help me see things a bit differently. "Source Material": excellent! Looking forward to next week's recap :-)

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  17. Claire was obnoxious in this episode. Brothel is way over the top and gratuitous at this point - just STOP IT. Jamie insisting to stay there, huh? Yeah Young Ian, Sr Ian, W and Fergus! Not my favorite episode, in fact least favorite of season thus far. Next week looks MUCH improved.

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  18. sigh...seems like we're back to the France Jamie and Claire --always at odds and lacking the warmth and joy in finding each other again. And lacking any sense of humor. Book Jamie and Claire are a funny couple. And book Claire is so worshipful of Jamie. We see him thru her eyes and admire all his good qualities and forgive his faults. And book Jamie seems to adore Claire even when ticked off at her. TV J and C seem cold, joyless and unpleasant to each other in tone and comment. I'm not enjoying this season except for your witty comments and review and the insightful comments here on this blog. I'll hand in there but I do enjoy going back to the book and reading the scenes with the REAL Jamie and Claire. So good to have Tom's funny comments. Blessings to you, Tom and you too Carol and Tracy.
    I keep commenting as Anonymous but I'm Terri in Florida. And I'm a fan.

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    1. Well said, Terri! It's interesting how the writers seem to interpret the Source Material differently than we readers have, in terms of their sense of humour together and how their love diminishes the faults, which is what happens in real life true love. - Lynn in Alberta

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  19. I enjoyed this week's episode more than last week's, but they do not measure up to the previous ones in my opinion.

    I am one of the book readers and have read each novel more than once. "Voyager" was my least favorite book. I didn't care for the Jamie that reunited with Claire.

    If I had returned to meet a smuggler who was corrupting his young nephew, who lived in a brothel, who lied to his brother-in-law and lied about being married (which Claire does not yet know)....I would have headed back to 1968 as fast as my feet would carry me through the stones. Claire was probably wondering where the young man she married had gone. I never understood why Gabaldon wrote the story that way.

    The reason that I like "Drums" so well is that I feel Jamie turned toward his original state and became more likable. I hope that it is renewed again so that I can follow their lives in North Carolina.

    It has been awhile since I read "Voyager". Didn't Mr. Willoughby kill the man who ended up in the cask?

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    1. yes I believe Mr Willoughby did kill him.

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    2. I felt the same after last week's episode. Had I been Claire, I'd have left! They aren't even together but a few minutes and Jamie's reaction to news and photos of his daughther is that he's so busy he has to be elsewhere?

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  20. Thank you gals for always providing a funny and informative review/recap (heavy on the funny). After watching the episode I immediately go to your OutlanderPurgatory site to hear your side of the story from both book and tv show perspectives. Always interesting!

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  21. You two never cease to entertain!

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  22. I haven't watched it a second time yet to verify this, but when Jamie went over the railing to rescue Ian, did he actually jump a FULL STORY? With no injury to the knee or back (at his age) after landing like that?! That scene took me out of the episode entirely. I thought I heard The Bionic Man music in the background and like the Dylan song from a few episodes ago, the scene seemed startlingly like it was from another era in time (futuristic, computer-generated, green screen heroics)!

    The fact that Jamie and Claire didn't have one moment of tenderness between them in this episode really bothered me. It doesn't seem realistic at all, given the fact that they are JAMIE AND CLAIRE for Pete's sake! With that *thing* between them that exists, but is undefinable. Where was the thing? I can appreciate the tension, given the fact that Jamie is hiding a major secret and both of them are still adjusting to being together, but couldn't we at least have a HUG somewhere in there?

    That said, I do love the arguments between them; it feels very much like real life husband and wife bickering. The passionate/heated debates are often my favorite parts of the books because it's so true to life, and not at all like a fairy tale romance where everything is perfect. But it would also be realistic to have some form of body contact (a quick kiss, a hug) to show that, Hey we're both hurting right now, but we have that THING and we don't want to give up so easily.

    Also, my first reaction to Claire's extreme bossiness and dire need to save the man who tried to kill her was "get over yourself and your ridiculous altruism." But after thinking about it further, I think it shows just how lonely she was all those years in Boston. She was celibate and basically married to her job. She doesn't appear to have had much balance in her life, juggling family and work. If I were Jamie, I would be really turned off by her strutting her knowledge/power like that. I'm left wondering if that was the goal of the scene—to show just how arrogant she has become, or are we all supposed to admire her taking her hippocratic oath so seriously, to the point that she can't even see she's putting other's lives and well-being in danger?

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    1. I keep reading and hearing people criticize Claire's insistence on helping the victim even if it risks the safety of her family. I work in healthcare. Doctors do take an oath and have a responsibility (legally and morally) to help the sick or injured in front of them. If a victim is there and it is an emergency, the doctor can not turn a blind eye and walk away.

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    2. My best friend works in the emergency room so I understand your point. But a situation like Claire's should allow a doctor the discernment to regard the spirit of the law vs. the letter of the law. The context of the predicament she was in affords her the grace to deviate from the letter (the oath). Besides, I don't think she was honoring her oath when she had a knife in her hand, trying to kill or severely hurt him in order to protect herself and escape.

      It's an interesting dilemma though... if she were to kill him instantly in self-defense upon first stabbing him, would she have been relieved and/or not even concerned about his life? Is it only the fact that she had the chance to put her skills and knowledge to the test (and she failed) that she is taking it like a personal failure?

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  23. I am new to the Outlander party. Just started reading the books after watching the TV show for the past 3 seasons. Have loved all the shows but have to say episode 7 was not a favorite. Not sure if it was book 1 or 2 but Mortagh, after having saved Calamity Jane from yet another of her self made calamities, asked Jamie if he regrets marrying Claire. Of course Jamie says no. Having watched episode 7 I have to wonder if Jamie isn't re-thinking his position. After a night of sexual healing thinking life is good now, Jamie returns to his rented room to find a dead man and Dr PIA attempting to bring him back from the dead, all the while ignoring Jamie's pleas not to bother because of the trouble it could bring. Failing that, Claire then proceeds to nag him about moving, lying to Ian and his lack of parenting skills. Claire, you've been back less than 24 hours give the man a break. Then as if that isn't enough Jamie watches his smuggler business fall apart and his printing business go up in smoke (good think Madame what's her name doesn't charge him rent 'cause his income has just taken a nose dive). Again all in less than 24 hrs. Seems like Jamie was living a pretty good life - business owner, little jingle in his pockets, sending money home to his family and then BOOM - Claire returns and all hell breaks loose. Again, all in less than 24 hours. As you girls say "if it isn't Claire it isn't there!!) Hope I got that right.) Anyway, still love the show- still love Jamie(too cute not to love) and yes you too Claire. And am now loving the books as well. Waiting for next week's episode and your commentary right after. Thank you girls for your very funny and informative recaps/reviews.

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    1. All hell broke loose because Jamie is running a CON on Mr P by selling in places other then High Street

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  24. Personally, I did not care for the Jamie falling apart on Claire's shoulder in the book. So can we put it to rest and not talk about it any more?
    After saying I just love this season, I got impatient during this episode. They were making so many changes from the book that I got anxious and confused, but Claire's bossiness was familiar, all right! I laughed when Claire said she needed a drill to perform brain surgery. Just give me more Jamie, please.
    I hope the rushed scenes in this episode will bring us to a halt at Lallybroch, so we can enjoy Jenny and Ned Gowan and the beautiful fireside scene.
    I think the rushing in this episode will happen a lot, since they have so much to pack in. Just keep the tender scenes between Jamie and Claire.

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  25. I love the show if you look at it as a stand alone show not based on a book series, but the whole essence of the books isn't there. One thing that makes the books so great is the bantering back and forth between J&C. Even when they're angry with each other, you still feel the love. In the show, Jamie is always praising Claire and showing his love, but Claire is to full of herself, like she's a prima Dona. They need to add the loveable bantering, more showing of affection. These little things will bring our characters closer to the book. It's not all about Claire. Let's make Jamie the true man he is, a smart man with a good sense of humor and honor and care for everyone, not a wimp with no backbone as they are portraying him.

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  26. Hi MOP Gals! Enjoyed the recap of 307 (as I do all of your videos). I listened to Matt B. Roberts and Tony Graphia's podcast about Creme de Menthe. Matt said he has the Print Shop sign in his office. I imagine they made a few of 'em, as it gets burned.
    I like the season so far. I am a book reader and enjoy how they bring the show from the book to TV.
    Carol, I like both the shows you mentioned - The Halcyon and Versailles.
    Happy Halloween!

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  27. Hey Tracey & Carol,
    First, thanks for the sorely needed laughs! I was surreptitiously listening to you at work today, crying & with my hand over my mouth to not laugh out loud!
    Re the print shop, I totally agree with both of you. Tracey, you're right, despite Sam's input on how to play the scene, in the end it is the Director's call, and it was a terrible one, no matter who was responsible. As you said, Carol, and this was my problem with it too, the photo scene needed to be 100% about Jamie, Claire and Bree. "The bairn" was the reason Jamie sent Claire away and the reason she left. He said a prayer for them EVERY DAY for 20 years. There is no way he would not have been overcome when presented with the photos. I wanted, and NEEDED, to see a reaction similar to the one he had with Jenny after Fergus lost his hand. If they "had" to introduce Willie, it should have been later, over dinner or in bed. Could have been so powerful with minimal dialogue: C hands him the photos, he starts to look, hands start to shake. C takes them back & hands one at a time, b& w, b&w, b&w then BAM the color photo with her hair, he leans on C & FALLS QUIETLY TO PIECES.. Such a beautiful opportunity lost forever. Major Fail.
    Re this week's EP, oy...it was a hot mess, IMO. Even if I hadn't read the books. at this point I would be wondering why in the world these two even WANT to be together! They act like they can barely stand each other. There were so many things wrong with this EP, I don't even know where to start. I'm also not hopeful. in the clip where Claire says she "doesn't know if they belong together" Jamie's arm is in a sling, meaning post gunshot. Does this mean they've also cut all of that convo betw J & C where they hashed everything out together? If so, I'm done. I never cared for a lot of the second half of Voyager anyway, so I don't particularly need yo see it on screen, esp not with THIS version of J&C.
    This season has been such a disappointment; this is NOT the J & C I love.
    Oh, and Carol, Ian said he was a afraid young Ian had been press ganged (into the army or onto a naval ship as an involuntary crew member). It was a pretty common practice back then to nab young boys for that purpose. Hope Tom is doing ok!!

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  28. Tracey, I remember being at a friend's house in high school and making grasshoppers from her mom's liquor cabinet!
    Also, I lost a baby. Even though I have other children, I think about that baby every day. If through some magic, I was handed a life's worth of photographs of that child, I would absolutely go to pieces immediately. And I'm an extremely reserved introvert.
    Please keep up the videos!

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  29. Hi Girls!

    Thanks for all the laughs, you entertained me while painting today! And before I forget, let me just say that Tom is great! Bring on more Tom!!

    I'm thankful for the TV show ... mostly. It has enormous positives such as bringing the sets and scenery to life for me. They're much richer and more ornate on the show than they were in my imagination in the books. I'm normally able to keep the book story and TV story in separate places in my brain (and heart,) but gads, I've found myself hate-watching lately. At this point, if the TV show disappeared, I wouldn't miss it. I have some beefs that just won't stay buried any more...

    -There are TV character traits about Jamie and Claire that, to me, have been undermining the strength and beauty of these two whose personalities that have built this entire Outlander love affair world-over. (I realize I'm talking about fictional characters here, even though I probably sound like I've lost my grip on reality.) I do love Sam and I like Cait; my feelings should likely point to the writers and directors, not to those two. The have minimized Jamie's strength and dominance - he was so imposing and reeked of honor and dignity. Throughout much of the first season I was clamoring for them to let Jamie show up and I still wish it sometimes. Book Jamie would have NEVER let Claire flounce about Edinburgh alone, especially since she didn't know where she was going and was already leaving dead people in her wake. Furthermore, he had far too much propriety to live in such a brothel alone, not with bouncing bubbies and orgies in the lobby. And to not bat an eye! That lack of respect shown to his character turned me off completely.

    -TV Claire has a certain snarkiness to her that book Claire didn't. While book Claire was assertive and bold and a magnet for trouble, she sure didn't seem to have a condescending lip curl or flash judgmental looks at everyone. I HATE that. Hate it, hate it. The rude bossiness in the episode was just awful and so unlike the character we know otherwise. It weirdly makes me feel wronged. Like when you order a dish at a restaurant that isn't how it was described, but you don't hate it enough to send it back. (Oh boy, now I've really lost it...)

    -And can I back track for a moment while I'm stomping my feet and having a tantrum? That 1968 hair was making me crazy. Sure it was in style, but I'm not buying that the most practical woman of all/mother/surgeon would have -or make - the time that it would take to morph that mop of curls into a bouffant. Furthermore, she would be struggling to be respected in her supremely male dominated career and I doubt she'd wear dresses above the knee, fashionable style or not, great legs or not.

    -I'm an 18th Century reenactor who has sewn dozens of period garments. No way on this planet could she have managed that bat suit from a trench coat with only the experience of making Halloween costumes. One petticoat? Maybe. Shift, zip up jumps fashioned from a girdle (ingenious!), bum roll, petticoat, long bodice, riding habit and cloak - all that with no pattern? Impossible. Yet another point that is discrediting the TV interpretation.

    All that aside, there have been lots of positives. I'm just having a hard time appreciating them at the moment, LOL. Thanks for letting me blather on. I look forward to next week, I'm sure I'll still be painting, too!

    Happy Samhain!

    Donna in PA

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    1. Fantastic observations! You've hit the nail on the head of the way the characters have been changed beyond recognition, the good qualities completely gone but for rare glimpses. Don't know how they are going to fix this as we're more than half way through the season.

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    2. She had a book on the table, which showed the patterns for her outfit. But, as someone who has sewn her own clothes since she was 12 - I agree that it is totally unrealistic that she could have made all those articles of clothing so quickly. She would have needed several trenchcoats just to make it, and laying out the pattern and cutting it would have taken ages. Anyone who sews knows for damn sure that it took Terry's team ages to make all those pieces.

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  30. Beginning with the ridiculous sewing of the bat suit, to Jamie's Batman leap in the printshop I have lost My Outlander Purgatory.

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  31. Hello! Outlander newbie here. Started watching S3 which lead to binge watching/reading S1/book 1 and recently found your vlogs/blogs which are very entertaining and insightful!

    The initial meeting in S3/Ep 6 was so underplayed that when watching I thought I got their whole story wrong from book1/S1. So much so that I picked up my unread copy of Voyager and jumped to page 313 to see how it played in the book. And that is how I thought it should happen!

    I finished reading Voyager and really couldn't believe everything that happens after she comes back (nothing like S1/book1 storyline). So for episode 7 I was kind of prepared for it to take some turns which it (questionably) did. With the knowledge that I now have of what is to come, not sure why they have made so many changes and additions except that they have so much story to pack into the remaining episodes. (But that doesn't really explain the need to have Claire go all 18th century self righteous surgeon on us!?!)

    I do like the show and have resolved it in my mind by going forward under the premise that the books are the books and the show is the show. That being said my reaction to the preview for next week was – not that dress again! Lol

    ps – best line in the vlog “stop the presses!”

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  32. I am totally in agreement with you Carol and Tracey. This episode was one of my least favorites of all the series. The bordello? Not needed to be so blatantly visual and in every scene. We could have used our imaginations and hearing to further that they were in a bordello. To me that was sensationalism at it’s worst. And the argument between J&C about living there? No way should they had that. Editing was off. For instance, when Claire went for the writing implements, how the heck did she write with a quill and no ink pot? Why did they change the Reverend to a con artist using his crazy/sick sister to tell the future? Why in heavens name did they let the cat out of the bag so early about the “first wife”. Only explanation has to be in my second paragraph here below. In the whole show, Claire came off as too bossy & unlikeable. Jamie wasn’t really terribly likeable either for the most part. If it were not for Fergus, Wee Ian and Ian, there wasn’t too much to redeem this one for me. My brain tells me yes, (sigh) I get it. I know it was filler & need to move the story quickly. But still, the depth of the connection and love of these two wasn’t there. Didn’t feel an ounce of it myself.

    Generally, I've been able to separate the book v. show very easily actually. I read the books a very long time ago, so I've forgotten a lot. That said, the parts that I have reread & they've left off, has bothered me. I totally am ok with changes & condensed parts, but there are some that are far too important to be left out for me. I think this new set of people are maybe more "mainstreamed tv" focused and writing to move the story, thereby leaving out the depth of connection these two characters have that is needed for the audience to really see beyond the visual. If that makes any sense. LOL For instance, the books get us in the gut. The series gets us in the eyes. They’ve got to find a way to bring that connection together better. They seemed to have it first season. Last season was understandable. It was one of my least favorites of the books. But Voyager brought it all back again. Heck, who knows, the popularity of the show seems to have made them go too mainstream and falling from their beginning stance of the unexpected and flipping from the usual gender slants etc, to typical expectations of a moving along a tv series.

    Sadly, I've not been as impressed this season so far. There have been moments here & there, but overall, sad to see that the heart & intensity seems to be lacking a bit for me. Maybe it's expectations after reading the books, but after last season being not as good as first, I really hoped that Voyager would knock it out of the park. The new writers just don't seem to be pulling in the emotional connection for me. Don’t know if that is from the writers or directors, but even the actors have not felt as emotionally connected this year. Still happy it is on, still enjoying it, but not as much as I had hoped too.

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  33. P.S. Can I just say how much I appreciate you both giving us a place where we can talk the good and the bad about the show without being made to feel awful when we have a differing view. Too many sites fuss about reviews/ers being judgmental and negative, when they are doing exactly that by not allowing other views and impressions allowed. I don't want negative personal remarks on writers/stars etc., but I love a discussion and debate on scenes and direction. And I truly have had few issues with the show over these years. (Just this year actually, as I knew DIA would not be as good, because the book wasn't my favorite) So I thank you for being so welcoming here.

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    1. I agree! I'm thankful as well. I LOVE the MOP video recaps, and then as the week goes on, I absolutely love reading everyone's opinions and subsequent discussions. This fandom is really an intelligent group of (I'm assuming, mostly) women. It is a joy to hear everyone's take—good and bad—on all angles!

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  34. Just a quick comment on Sam's input in changing the action of the 'falling to pieces.' Sam & Cait have discussed in past seasons how open the writers and directors are to listening to their concerns and possible changes. This was not the first time it happened. They had both fought for some scenes in Season 2 to include the baby belly being shown during sex, among other things. They have remarked that it is great they are respected for their suggestions, and that just like the writer's room, much is discussed and not all changes get made, but some do. It appears to be a very cooperative production taking all sides into account before getting to the final decision. I wondered when Sam suggested changes - during read through, rehearsals, or on set - that would indicate who was in on the final choice that was made besides Sam.

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  35. Creme de menthe - use it layered with vanilla ice cream makes creme de menthe parfait. Very popular back in my younger days. Or just pain over ice as a liquor, like Amaretto etc.

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    1. My mom used to serve it over vanilla ice cream at her dinner parties in the seventies.

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    2. My mom used to make a sundae for me and herself: creme de menthe, vanilla ice cream, hot fudge sauce in layers, toasted coconut on top. I get the chills remembering....

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  36. Matt Roberts seems to have greater responsibility this season in the production as a whole, which is why I am surprised this episode was so bad. He knows J&C in and out and has such respect for the characters that I can't believe he would let this script go forward as such. I was really worried when they announced a new crop of writers this season and it looks like my worst fears are coming true. If they wreck next episode I don't know how I will contain my rage.

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  37. Hi Ladies,

    Carol, excellent job leading the discussion this week. Tom looks fantastic btw..Yay Tom. Tracey if I lived near, I would want to see your stage performance! Good Luck.

    Old news: As an avid book reader, I still would put myself in your friend's Teresa's column of being comfortable with the Breehaha moments.

    However, I absolutely understand why that moment was so important...for some more than others. I think DGs words speak to us on such a personal level. DG is obviously a woman who lives and writes her faith, which speaks deeply to me. I mourn the loss of Jamie's beautiful prayers and discussions. Whether he is giving thanks for a animals death and the meal it will bring , a birth, a wake or making an oath before God, they have profound meaning to who he is. I realized early on we would not get much of that important element toward character building in tv Outlander, so I do understand why some parts of the Outlander series are a bit sacred to us all. I'm thrilled when any part of original book dialogue is used.

    Episode 307 felt just a little Comic con this past week. You know when a dramatic scene makes you giggle more than gasp, like the Greys Anatomy/ER opening sequence or the True Blood brothel scenes, or the CW slow motion jump from the balcony complete with Beauty & the Beast 3 point landing. For some reason, tv Outlander always seems at its best when most of the scenes are outdoors. I loved the season one big bear hugs Jamie would give Claire after the Hugh Munro visit on the hill, and the nighttime raid on their camp. The love of family moves this story along and going forward, I can not begin to imagine how they will let it all unfold. I know I'm not going to miss a minute!!

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    1. I've read a few articles this week about Outlander's audience being mostly female. Do you think maybe they are slightly slanting the show to try to appeal to more males? I don't know, but it just seems to feel different this year. Could be due to new writers, but so far, it's felt different. Also they will be having adventures, which again might make them think they need to attract more males since these adventures are going to turn swashbuckling type. But yes, it did feel Comic con, with the capes and jumping into the fire etc. Then add back in the previous Batman suit of Claire's and this is all just wrong IMO.

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  38. Love your recaps girls...and Tom! I think I could accept any changes in the story as long as they kept Jamie and Claire as close to the book versions as possible. But ever since the end of season one they've slowly changed them to characters I don't recognize or really like. They can put a million nude sex scenes in the story but it does make up for the loss of the real love story between these two people. The love that led Claire to risk her life, give up her daughter, leave her career all to get back to Jamie. And frankly I don't think I would have been very interested in the tv show after the first season if I hadn't loved the books. I'm fine with them changing everything but not with the changes of the two main characters personalities. I just think the tv producers/writers just don't really get it. I really don't like tv Claire any more and like Jamie less and less. Great supporting characters tho.

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    1. Agree with all of the above (sadly)
      I probably would have stopped watching a loooong time ago also. I compensate for my disappointment with poor chatacter development by picking up any of DG's books, flipping randomly to any page and immersing myself in her masterfully written story.
      Beautiful costumes and scenery aren't quite doing it for me anymore, and that really does make me sad.
      Voyager wasn't my favorite book mind you, I long for the "home" scenes, be it Lollybroch, the Ridge or quiet moments by a campfire.
      Traipsing around the Caribbean with a revolving door of bizarre characters is going to be ALOT to squeeze into the next few episodes.
      Man that all seems whine'y.... I can sum up how I feel by saying your recap is edging out the show as mu fav part of my watching experience.
      Sniff...

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  39. This certainly was not my favorite episode. You'd think Clair would remember how rough and dangerous 18th century Scotland was and taken some self defense classes in the 20th century before she went back. Events seem to play out at their worst when she is around. It was hard to watch her self centered behavior for a whole hour. Also, no one in that time frame gave two rats asses about people dying. Those people were struggling every day to survive, their medical care was very rudimentary and her 20th century oath to heal has no meaning there.
    I find it funny how Jamie presented Willie as being his son while totally leaving out he also had other children. I've read the books so know how all this plays out but... still.
    Loved seeing adult Ian and really felt for him when seeing Claire. The brothel has outlived its shelf life and needs to die a quick death. Too bad it did not burn down. Talk about distracting from the emotion of what was really going on in the moment. As to all the tits and ass... my husband did not find this a turn on in any way and felt it was distracting. Perhaps the writers need to poll more men to see what kind of nudity they really like.
    Enjoyed seeing Fergus and young Ian more in this episode.
    I agree as to Clair finding some new clothes to put on. It seems like much more time has perhaps gone by instead of like 24 hours for all the chaos being played out. I mean surely they need to be washed and she needs a bath. I hope she hid some deodorant in one of her secret pockets or a razor. Maybe Jenny will have some clothes she can borrow next week.

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    1. That's funny about the deodorant as I said to my husband that she would have packed that -- maybe some toothbrushes and fluoride toothpaste too!

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  40. Hi Tracy and Carol, thank you for all your work on the videos and social media. I have really enjoyed your recaps over the years and you always made me laugh out loud and also pointed out things I missed. I loved hearing the different perspectives as well.

    With regard to this episode, I got 7 minutes in and had to turn it off. I just can't watch my favorite characters and story being butchered like this any more. As Anon said above these are now characters I don't recognize or really like. I may try to keep watching just out of loyalty but right now it feels like a chore.

    Lisa in GA




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    1. Lisa, I've tried to reply to your comment like 17 times over the last few days and each time I just get stuck and sign off. I seriously feel your pain, right through my computer screen. I try so hard to be positive and remember the great things about the TV series, but sometimes it's really hard to do. And I ask myself, "Why?" Why am I trying so hard? I'm not being paid to review or promote this show, so why am I feeling bad about voicing my disappointment with certain situations or characters? I truly hope the writers/producers of the show want to hear constructive criticism, and that they realize that any negative commentary on the part of MOP is not done with ill will. We want the show to succeed more than anyone. ❤️ That said, I have gotten to that point where you are right now. I've finished watching a few times and said, "I don't know if I can do this anymore" when things have upset me. It's a real struggle when I find a scene/character to be ridiculous, irritating, etc. But I keep going, out of loyalty to...the books? Diana Gabaldon? My 8 years of blogging? I don't know. I just keep going. And I hope you will keep going too. 😘

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    2. Hi Carol, thank you for your reply! For what it’s worth, I’ve enjoyed your videos as much if not more than a lot of episodes! I think if anything I will just watch your recaps! Best wishes to you and your family <3 <3

      Lisa

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  41. I think when production made the decision to not stay in Clare's POV it opened up other opportunities to explore Jamie's thoughts. I think this is what we saw regarding his secret - he is worried about telling Clare, but obviously has a plan to declare the marriage null and void due to Claire's return. I am sure he is thinking that if that can happen before he has to tell Claire, then maybe she won't bolt for the stones and leave him. In a sense they are trying to give us peeks into Jamie's life, actions and thoughts about about the man he became without Clare. I also think the writers enjoy doing this to keep book fans from knowing exactly what is going to happen, by either adding new things, or taking a different view of the book things.

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  42. Well, so much for afterglow. : (

    Carol and Tracey, thanks so much for the laughs. I really needed them this week. I can get so irritated just thinking about this episode that I feel like I need a hole drilled into my head to relieve the pressure. "Creme de Menthe" left such a bad taste in my mouth (see what I did there?) that it has replaced "The Fox's Lair" at the bottom of my episode list. Between this one and many S2 episodes, I'm beginning to get warm fuzzies for "The Search."

    The change in the behaviors of Jamie and Claire between 306 and 307 is so stark, it has even gotten many "go with the show flow" fans sitting up and wondering, "WTF?" Welcome to the world of us "Book Claire" and "Book Jamie" fans. After 307, now we're ALL wondering where our favorite characters went. Especially Claire. Did she take a hypocritical oath? Maybe Dougal should come back and haunt her.

    And speaking of ridiculous (weren't we?), I've about decided that the brothel and it's gratuitous sex is meant as punishment for fans who complained about the lack of intimacy in S2. That'll teach 'em! I literally bristle at every scene where Jamie receives a guest in the Orgy Room. My memory may not be what it used to be, but I really can remember that Jamie lives in a brothel without needing to see bouncing butts and boobs in the background.

    There's more I could say about my displeasure with this episode, but I feel like all I've done is complain since I watched late Saturday night. So, I thank you gals again for making it worth my pains. Laughter is the best medicine - and yours is definitely better than the bossy-bitch kind of medicine Claire practices. Ok, I'll shut up now.

    Dolittle












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    1. "I can get so irritated just thinking about this episode that I feel like I need a hole drilled into my head to relieve the pressure."

      πŸ˜‚My family wants to know why I'm laughing to myself in the kitchen.

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  43. I guess I'm in the minority here. I didn't find Claire to be the bitchy type that many fans felt she was. I actually thought her deep need to save the guy seemed in character since she is a surgeon from the 20th century. She also asked, not demanded, for assistance. Claire in S2 really bugged me a lot, because she was irritable and bitchy throughout the season, but I've felt S3 Claire has really toned it down. It's Jamie that's fast approaching the point of no return for me. First, we really never see him grieve for Claire or their child during their years apart, then when he sees pictures of his daughter, he dismisses them so he can talk about his bastard son....nice. His shady business has almost gotten Claire killed, he conducts business in a brothel like he owns the place, and now we know he's hiding the fact he remarried from Claire, and the woman he remarried tried to have Claire killed....and he knows it? Lord, how can they pull this back to a place where I can believe in this love story again?

    Claire groveling to Jenny in the sneak peek for ep 308 is the worse!

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    1. "Claire groveling to Jenny in the sneak peek for ep 308 is the worse!"

      Oooh Jan. I think you'll appreciate our next video. 😈

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  44. Donna, totally agree about the fact that making Halloween costumes suddenly made her an expert on sewing a complicated 18th century dress. That felt so unrealistic to me. More of superwoman Claire who can do anything. My main issue this season has been how unlikable Claire is. To Be honest, she annoys me in the book sometimes. But the show takes it to a new level! She spent 20 years pining for Jamie, but within 24 hours she cares nothing about his opinion and is back to telling him how to live and needs to take off to do her own thing? I really felt like the writers were off-track most of season two, so i’m getting very nervous about the rest of this season. And it’s doubly frustrating, because voyager is absolutely my favorite book.

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    1. "She spent 20 years pining for Jamie, but within 24 hours she cares nothing about his opinion and is back to telling him how to live and needs to take off to do her own thing?"

      Oh there are just NOT enough AMENS to go around for this comment!!! Bravo!!!

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    2. Hey all it's Lynn here - absolutely agree with you, Brandy! Carol, here's another AMEN! lol! As I said before, Voyager is also my favourite book of all of Diana's, and I can see it coming - the train is derailing right before our eyes haha! Ah weel, we do still have our MOP Ladies :-D

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