Carol Blogs. Tracey Tweets. James Alexander Malcolm Mackenzie Fraser means to take his time about it, aye?
Remember: Neither J nor C are sleeping well, and C, on a good day, is known for acting without thinking. This season, they have had 2 attempts at intimacy, and I am hoping against hope that we will get the 'three beat' (thanks Lani and Alastair)for some sexual healing next week. So missing their tenderness.
Hi Guys - Auntie HereJust watched the video, and am here with a few of my -- non-candy-coated -- observations and comments.I was beyond thrilled to see Jamie show up at the hospital in his kilt. It represented to me that he was starting to come back to his real self. AND if he can come back, so can Claire. Then we get them together finally!Just going by the video behind the credits, there are important France things that will be covered: snake, stables, white jewel on necklace, Jamie fist-fighting and carrying someone (Claire or Mary?) - that's a lot!I know I'm terribly one-note; but in my reading of various blogs, I agree with Carol that many people are, shall we say, frustrated that the show is getting away from what for most people is the central focus/purpose of the show: the Jamie/Claire relationship. This is true of readers and non-readers. I hear nobody clamoring for Claire to get back to her life with Frank in Boston; nobody pressing to see more Leery flirting with Jamie (altho apparently we are going to be treated to more of this in Scotland eventually); nobody wanting more Bonnie Prince/King Louis/Duverney; nobody wants any more Louise/Mary. Some folks agree with the increase in screen time for Murtagh (so do I): but the vast majority want Jamie and Claire back!! Who is keeping them from us? The Faeries? Who has an interest in pressing heretofore non-existent love triangles? Who hates Jamie/Sam? If you know me. these questions answer themselves... Love you guys!
Agree Auntie...there is a force here that is preventing Jamie/Sam from being Jamie.
I just want to make a suggestion. Maybe all of you worried about J and C not being intimate, then you should watch To Ransom a Man's Soul again, you know, where Jaime is raped, brutally and psychologically? I think three episodes in season two is not too much to ask of the viewers to get back to their powerful relationship.
Auntie ... I almost choked on my coffee when I read your comment "...The Faeries?" LOL!
Well I am just going to say it they should have started Jamie's healing last season they had time The search and The watch and even some of Wentworth could have been cut down and used as flashback's in season 2 as he continued to heal in the first few episodes of S2. This is deliberate for the love triangle and the faeries(cough cough) are writing it the way they see it. What is going on is intentional I have non book reader friends that I have convinced to watch the show and they were confused by the stones scene last season I had to explain it to them I got side eye for that. They do not understand why I love the books so much they do not see it as the incredible epic love story I told them I love. They actually feel sorry for Frank if that is what the fairies are conveying then they have accomplished the goal. My non book reader friends are bored they are like auntie said wanting to see romance and love between Claire and Jamie. I could go on and on but the bottom line is they are dropping the ball it started last season with episode 9 and continues I want to see all the books come to life but the books I read not just the borrowed character names and a completely different story. I did love the scenes, costumes, and new characters introduced. I am with Carol about Murtaugh his respect for Claire and love for her would have never of allowed him to speak to her like that thank you faeries for that one also. I want all three of my characters back not fixed Jamie will always deal with BJR anyone that goes through trauma carries it always. I want Jamie my Jamie, Claire my Claire, and my Jamie and Claire. If this episode does not find healing and they do it in episode 5 how will they ever convince the non book readers about Claire and Jamie's love. Doing my best to be positive but the last 11 episodes have disappointed me. Love you Auntie. Totally agree!
ok this is my 2nd try, lost my almost finished reply earlier so this will be shorter! Jennifer Hyatt I agree with you. Jamie did not have the semi healing in the Abbey like in the book so they have to deal with this in season 2. Of course our lovebirds are not themselves yet. We have to see this tension and frustration so that we can enjoy it that much better when they do find each other again which will happen!!! But then there will be more trauma again so please people prepare yourselves, DIA was not a walk in the park lovefest for the FRasers!! They had to deal with a lot of external and internal conflicts! Sorry about all the exclamation points but all the complaining about not seeing J&C loving each other is making me crazy. These 2 will weather any storm as we know but we do need to see the S@$#storm they have to go through so we can appreciate all the more how strong they are. I wish we book readers can let go of all the minute comparisons that we keep doing. I understand that we want to feel those same emotions that we felt when we read the books but these are two different media, as Diana herself has reminded us. So many fans are now saying they don't want to watch, so you'd rather not have the show at all because it didn't stick strictly enough to your experience of the books? I want to have both. I will always have the beloved lines in the books but I love the visual telling of this story! I know Jamie will be Jamie again and their love will shine again. I don't love every change the show runners have made but I so appreciate them giving us this story and in my view its very close to what Diana gave us, it just lacks sometimes those subtle nuances that books can give you with more scenes to flesh out the story and emotions. Also re comments below, I don't think Ron Moore is being arrogant and deliberately not spending enough time on those love scenes that we women die over, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt that he just wants to engage a larger audience, including more men who are drawn to the intrigue and plotting, and conflict of the story. I hope that didn't sound too sexist as I know many of us ladies enjoy the machinations in Paris too! I would like to ask everyone to separate the books from the show to a certain extent, and give RM et al a chance to tell us their story. DIA was so complicated and jampacked, maybe we shouldve still had 16 episodes and that's why it feels choppy right now. But they had to do the best they could and so many involved in the show love the books as much as we do so I don't think they mean to give us a completely different version in the end. Well i said this reply was going to be shorter but I lied. my fingers had a mind of their own. Thanks for letting me share though...
Auntie Here -Just popping in to say that when I referred to wanting the focus back on the J - C RELATIONSHIP, I was not necessarily referring only to their intimate (read: sex) life. For myself, I'd like to see them COMMUNICATING more as a couple about their life together (beyond housekeeping, Claire's clothes/grooming, Jamie's business, and the whole stop-the-revolution intrigue). I want to see some of the dialogue we missed from the Abbey in the book where Jamie told Claire something of what was done to him by BJR, why he felt he "couldn't be a husband" to Claire, BJR invading his dreams, etc. More of THAT. Would I like some sex between them? DUH! But not before we see Jamie unburden himself to Claire about the demons BJR unleashed within him. I agree that much of the failure to do this so far comes from the badly managed "extra" plot stuff in S1 and the time it wasted. But at the root of all that is the pernicious and widespread antipathy towards the Jamie character by the showrunner.
Bingo, Auntie. Agree with every word.
Wow, I'm totally stunned and saddened by your description of the showrunner's treatment of the Jamie character. If this be true, I might as well stop watching it and the fact that I detect some truth to what you've stated (I'm a book reader)...I'm beyond deflated. I had such high hopes and belief in RM's treatment from the opening episodes. 10 episodes left to redeem the vision?
We will have faith that he will redeem it. I am like auntie is is not the sex as much as all the conversations they have Frank has had more time than Jamie to develop that needs to change. Will they have Jamie flashbacks like they had Frank when she returns to the future that would be redeeming to me. I will give RDM the benefit of the doubt.
I think we seem to be missing the point of the story both in print and on screen.1. Remember they are still newly married and then suffered a horrendous trauma that wou,D rock a longstanding relationship. 2. If the show skated over this process, it would cause the depth to diminish. Also as we have seen in the past, as they learn more about each other and go through the valley of shadows, they become E more intimate both emotionally and physicaly.3. Remember Herself has discussed mutiple times, as well as RM, that this season WILL not be following as closely to the book, but the story WILL be told in its to get to Voyager.4. They chill heal and she will be devastated when she is sent back through the stones (primal scream in episode 201). They are trying g to heal themselves individually and as a couple and in Paris court and stop history. But not make people cease to exist in the future.5. Servants...remember what century we are in....not 20th or 21st6. Murtagh...he didn't know the was nothing going on in the bedroom until Suze the said something. So he was teasing her and didn't know how deep it would cut..since she obviously wasn't prudish before.
In the first scenes, I actually didn't read Claire's actions with the servants as being a beeyotch, but more as she is simply frustrated at the lack of any intimacy with her husband. "I'll button his damn shirt, thank you very much!" I felt she just wanted to be the one touching him.I'm with you, Carol. Last night as I was watching, I, too, toyed with the idea of just turning it off. Where are my Jamie and Claire????? Jamie just aimlessly pretending to work while worried about Claire was so unlike him. He is a man of action. Get the heck out there and look for your woman if you're worried. He does it every other time! Instead, he is pacing around like a helpless fool.I'm starting to feel like Ron Moore is subconsciously jealous of book Jamie and is doing his best to turn him into something "less". Where is our smart, funny, tender hero????? And could someone fix his hair? Really! Frank gets better scenes and story lines. Why??? Does Ron Moore relate more to Frank? I am angry. No more sugar-coating here either!On the positive, I did love the hospital scenes and wee Fergus. I didn't mind watching the surgery as Diana was always very descriptive with all of her medical procedure scenes, and I always enjoyed reading those passages. Hoping next week will be better...
Nicely put. Claire is getting a bad rap this week. Suzette was all up in her face last week about how she needs to let the maids have something to do, so when Claire gives her a hanky to mend Suzette just leaves it in the kitchen? You go, Claire.
Ok I want to start with I love you two and you're doing a fantastic job. Like y'all I've read all of the big enormous books, novels and novellas. Diana has said put the book down. The show is NOT THE BOOKS! If it could've happened she's fine it. In the book Jamie had MUCH more recovery time and even then he was still traumatized. Remember the nude specter of BJR walked across their bedroom (in Jamie's mind) one night. Jamie and Claire had a stranded relationship in Paris. They will get back to the Jamie and Claire we want to see. I know how much you two love these books, because I'm there with you. I also love the show and don't want it go away. Y'all aren't like the podcasters who ask for payment. You've been doing this for years for the love of our wonderful book series. I love you two! Dropping my mic now! Thanks! Marianna
I miss them being together too. It all stems from not doing the "Trash a monastery cell in an opium rage and exorcise a demon " scene. There is a lot to cover plot-wise, but Claire is great with child in all the canoodling pictures, so I think it will turn around. Also, there will be 8 episodes in France by the list I saw. Don't forget the most important scene with Raymond and St. Germain will happen after Faith. I am super interested in these as I have lots of theories based on the Novellas. If I win the lottery, I will take you guys on a trip to Paris and the Highlands. Thanks for making Sundays more interesting,Therese in Nova Scotia
Hi Carol & Tracey,Love your recaps and I've never been here to comment, but felt I really needed to say something about what you said about Ep 203. First of all, you said you were bored with France but you wanted to see more or Claire's unhappiness and boredom with France. The show needs to move faster and get through this. We don't have time to see Claire hanging out alone and unhappy. I agree with Auntie, above, there are many things still to come and hopefully we will get to see some of things we all love from the books. In the book Claire & Jamie are apart both physically & emotionally for months. Of course, this is later after something happens. I think the show is using this time to show how much they both suffer when they are not together. They will not have time later. I also watch/listen to HangOutlander from That's Normal but I have to say that I ended up turning the episode off last week. It seems like they all got too drunk and just went on and on about how the show wasn't like the book at all and how Ron Moore has just screwed it up. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion but I felt the criticism was a little overboard. Plus there were just too many people trying to talk at once. I hope you continue your great recaps. Sorry I didn't take the time to register so I am showing as Anonymous. Have a great weekend. Linda L
The movie of the week is: Sixteen Candles....but also love the Working Girl reference. I agree about your Murtagh observation, Tracey. He would have sheepishly entered the room to speak with Claire--not flaunt his dalliance with Suzette. And Claire would have never considered addressing the issue anyway. It also seemed weird that Claire even cared about that scarf (tissue) being mended to go looking for Suzette. But I'm loving #MurtetteCarol...I feel your pain. The disconnect and the alteration of everyone's character is all because we did not address Jamie's recovery in S1. So now we are here...in a place where they know they are outlanders and instead of bonding together as they did in the books, they are estranged from each other. My husband (non-book reader), who loved S1 is struggling. He understands the intrigue of the plan...but it is just not intriguing enough. The "plan" can only work with them working together. We are missing not only the passion between J&C, but the way they supported each other in things they were passionate about. I am hopeful that in the next episode they get to "reconnect" and get back to the J&C we know and love. And, enough of this freaky brothel already!! They are spending waayyy too much time on the services and entertainment being offered there.
Marian for the movie win!!!And YES--so glad you understand my uncomfortableness with the Murtaugh thing. I actually liked this ep a lot more on the third viewing--but my feelings on that did NOT change. :-(
Marian, i'm there with you. My husband watched all of season one with me but I'm losing him this season! He's so bored with it. I really wish they would pick up the pace, I have to say I was disappointed last week. For some reason, I don't feel like they're capturing the real Jamie this season. I rolled my eyes when Jamie charges through the house telling all their secrets in front of the servants! To me, he comes across young and Claire comes across much older than him. In the books they always seemed equal to me.I know in the books she's maybe three or four years older than him, but because of his life experience, I always thought they were on even ground and sometimes he was even more mature than her. I'm desperately hoping we get the real Jamie. Sam is beyond capable of bringing him to life, if the writing was there.
humm...well now that T&C have labeled me the pronunciation police...there is a website that is called french wine pronunciation for dummies! HA!First, there are only 13 episodes for season 2. So if they get out of France, well, fine. The sooner the better we get back to Scotland. Although with the other books looming quickly after Culloden...how long will Scotland be the focus?Personally,I skimmed most of Paris and picked it up at the end - I know what happens but not in micro-detail. Originally that was when I stopped reading Outlander in the late 90's. So now I'm up to book 5. It is what it is, and I like everyone's take on the books and the series. I thought it was so interesting that I could definitely tell the writing difference between Anne Kenney and Ira. It doesn't have the flow to it for season 2 that season 1 had with different writers and different directors.This is one expensive series, and if you notice, no annct of season 3 yet. While I think it will happen, I would be concerned about every book being done. The ratings will be watched even tho season 2, ep 1 had improvements over season 1. All platform viewership roll ups need to be very strong numbers. RDM has maximum flexibility to tell this story being on premium - so he should value that freedom. And that freedom can deliver a rich, robust and complex drama with elements that can't be on basic cable or b'cast.Just a personal impression - I think RDM is happy when he can make the series as dark as possible or pushing the envelope as much as possible for a variety of reasons. For me, it's about doing justice to the original material. T&C have always given us honest observations, but don't read the harsh snark from other blogs any more. In fact, I'd rather just hear 2 voices that can differ, read the comments on this site, Purg's You Tube channel and mostly listen to the chat.Keep up the good work ladies! Loved your tweets last night - so funny to read during the show.jefsantamonica
"The Pronunciation Police" LOLOLOLOL
Hi girls, Just wanted to say I'm a huge fan of your website and videos, you're both hilarious. Funnily enough I'm from Sussex in the uk - where frank and bjr are from! Totally agree with all of your points in the video for this week, I'm really missing the intimacy that Jamie and Claire normally share so easily. I can't stand this awkwardness between them! Loved Fergus and bouton in the hospital. Question though...when will we hear about season three being given the go ahead? Season two was given the nod the same night that season one premiered! Keep up the good work! Love from the uk! X
Thanks ladies for a wonderful recap! You have me laughing every week. I appreciate all the time you spend on the videos, chats, social media, etc etc!!Lots to like in this episode. Fergus, Mother Hildegarde, Bouton, Hot Murtaugh. Figuring out the coded letter. Duverney "I give you permission to respect me a little less" - very funny. All great.On the downside, I think Jamie acted like a complete a$$ when Claire came home from the hospital. Even though he had a point (it's true, he is putting in much more effort to accomplish their goals) I just hated the way he spoke to her and shoved her hand off his shoulder when she was trying to make up. She was actually being conciliatory y'all. Plus - HE IS OFTEN OUT ALL FREAKING NIGHT AT THE BROTHEL - nothing wrong with her coming home late. Why are they turning him into such a hateful jerk? This is not Jamie.Pretty much the only reason I have cable is for this show, although I enjoyed watching Black Sails during Droughtlander. I truly hope the rest of the season brings back the Jamie and Claire that I love so much.
Good point, Anon. Maybe it would help if the audience was seeing more brothel antics. Let's see what happens this week! :)
I AGREE! Where is the Jamie I love?! Claire is a strong female character, of course, but I actually always found her a little bit annoying in the books. It's Jamie who makes the books and the show swoon-worthy to me. I'm not feeling super excited about the series anymore, which makes me sad. I'm hopeful we'll see the real Jamie soon!!April 29, 2016 at 1:48 PM
I love the colorful Claire, the Scottish Claire was a bit drab. She's beautiful so let her shine. I agree that more information concerning the location of the squalid hospital would be helpful to the viewers although the crisp red curtains around a few of the beds defeated that image. The Murtagh scene was ok but unnecessary when other more important details were left out to accommodate it. I too would have loved to see the Jamie and Bouton scene in the door way because that would have been a bit of the "comic relief Jamie" that we crave. This was a transitional episode I think, the next ones should be more important.
I agree that they are over doing the strained relationship between Claire and Jamie. Even when it comes to Jamie bringing home Fergus. She finds him on her own and when Jamie explains his purpose for Fergus, they are physically separated by a series of doorways. I understand their relationship has to evolve but it shouldn't be that they are simply existing under the same roof.Am hoping in the next episode or two that they end up closer to being a team and relying more on each other.
Tracey Faith is the 7th episode not the 5th the 5th is Untimely Resurrection Tobias Menzies says that is when he reappears and 6th one is The Best Laid Plans. They do not go back to Scotland until the 8th episode. No excuse for lack of dialog. I am a book reader and feel like I have been thrown under the bus. If this keeps up I will not be returning for Season 3 it is to emotional draining and destroying the story of Jamie and Claire in the book that I love.
With their history I would imagine that the knowledge that BJR survived is weighing heavily on Claire. What a relief it must have been to share that with Murtagh, situation not withstanding, lol.
Just a quick comment - sometimes things distract, such as the fireworks last week or Claire's dresses - but is anyone else ever distracted by Caitriona's extremely long and graceful neck? I was when watching this episode. Wow!
Another great job, both of you! I really think we will be happy with the next couple of episodes. I remind myself that Ron has Terri and Maril in his ear so is quite aware of what "has" to be in the show. Not only that, but Cait and Sam have input also. Keep up the great work!!!
Always enjoy your comments - watched for years - back when there was no show, just books. I tried watching That's Normal but they are too negative about everything. I am just glad my favorite books have been made into a series and hopefully the next episode brings Jamie and Claire back to their usual loving relationship. Keep up the good work.
Hi Ladies, I enjoyed your comments about the latest episode. I know the show and the book are diverging, but I wouldn't stop watching the show; too curious to see how they'll portray different events. I am a little worried about STARZ not announcing Season 3 yet. P.S. I miss Chummy, too!
Yes don't go back to That's Normal, they are way too nitpicky and off topic, way too into themselves. The Outlander production is trying too hard to stay with the book and the Jamie /Claire relationship and intimacy is suffering for it. The hour segments are too restrictive but that's what we're stuck with. The ratings will suffer and put the series at risk if they don't kowtow to the masses that want intimacy 90% of the time. We need to keep the numbers up. Try to stay positive and cheerlead us on...Voyager is the best and I hope we'll see it.
Not just intimacy. Understanding and supporting each other, talking, being on the same team.
That's what intimacy is anonymous.
I agree even though there are some things missing that I loved in the book you guys are absolutely right they only have so much time to get through this huge plot and there's not enough for those small details we the book readers love. They will hopefully pay us back for it big time in upcoming episodes and I'm not going to stop watching because I am thrilled about these wonderful books becoming a show and I am going to hope it all ends up being absolutely fantastic by the end and I can't wait to watch!! Loved your recap and I think you guys are the best. So screw the Internet trolls who are negative because you guys really love and appreciate these books and it shows in your videos :)
Love your analysis once again. I agree that Murtagh would not have spoken to Claire in that manner out of respect to Jamie and to her. Can you imagine him talking like that to Jenny Murray whom he knew even better than Claire? Tho I did like Murtagh getting some "comfort" from the housemaid...he deserves a little love too. It's hard not to think that the people making the show either don't "GET IT" ... what made Jamie "King of all men" or else they don't respect it and don't want the Jamie character to be like the Jamie in the books. The clothes this week were much more reasonable ... if Claire has come into a fortune! The clothes she wore last week were beautiful but they looked like she was in a perfume ad. I know Terri is a wonderful designer but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it. those costumes were very very distracting to me.I'm not liking Jamie this season and don't find him at all attractive without the twinkle in his eye and the quirky smile on his face and smart ass remarks. Claire is not winning any points with me either.I tried to watch it a second time but went to get a snack and didn't even pause the show which shows how uninterested I was.Love Mother H. Fergus is adorable.It's turned into a ho hum show even with all it's beautiful clothes and settings.Thanks for the review. I enjoyed it more than the show. Oh, and I signed up for Stars just to see Outlander ... sigh.
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I watch the re-cap every week and love you guys.I am sorry to say that if I was not a book reader I don't know if I would continue watching the show.I hate to say that. Everything you said in this week's rap-up rings true for me. I hate that Jamie and Claire are not on good terms right now, plus the way this episode was put together this week was just a little sloppy and boring for me. Hopefully once we get out of France it will be better, I am hoping for flash forwards of Claire Brianna and frank in Boston in the 50's when Brianna is little, something to shake up the non book readers and add some excitement would be great!!!!
Great recap, Ladies! I read the first book and part of DIA. Season 2 is so boring...so far. My problem is this....if you're not going to give me what's in the book, please give me something better. So far, that hasn't happened. :(Also, love the part with Mary Hawkins. Couldn't help thinking poor little innocent thing, she is about to be in "50 Shades of Grey....the 18th century version!
Ok, on the positive side, I haven’t enjoyed an episode this much since “The Devil’s Mark,” back in season one. I understood Claire’s short temper with Suzette and Murtaugh: she was alone in carrying the burden of knowledge about BJR, and she had just made the revelation about Mary Hawkins and how it all relates to Frank’s future. I loved that she confided in Murtaugh. I didn’t find Claire’s clothing overly distracting in this episode, but if she does look better than her surroundings, perhaps Master Raymond provided the answer when he remarked that it is usually the maid getting contraception for the lady. Claire is likely going into areas not often frequented by upper class females, but rather by their servants. I thought Comte St. Germaine’s clothing was rather eye-catching as well, but then he would be eye-catching in burlap :) Though clumsily explained, I understood Claire’s desire to be useful. Jamie is running Jared’s business and spending the rest of his time in places where Claire cannot accompany him. She needs more mental stimulation than sitting and listening to vapid conversations about gossip and fashion. I loved Fergus, Mother Hildegard, and Bouton! Add in Master Raymond and the others introduced last week and we have seen some amazing casting. Beyond those positives, however, this continuing lack of the Claire and Jamie relationship we all love, added to the long-time issue of the watering-down of Jamie’s character, is VERY annoying. In the interest of getting real here (NO candy coating!), I’ll go ahead and get this off of my bra-wearing chest: I feel that Ron Moore is indirectly telling female fans that we just aren’t discerning enough to understand how much this source material needs “fixing,” and how his well-respected, male-oriented touches are making it so much better. It feels like arrogance, and disrespect, but mostly it feels like gender bias. Yes, there is room for change, and even improvement, but can he really only find value in this story by minimizing the aspects women fans tend to love most about these books? I truly believe Outlander is a story that is adventurous, exciting, and rich enough to be enjoyed by ANYONE, but it presents within it a relationship that many women find uniquely endearing. So, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT?!! Ok, that feels better :) And one last bone to pick: I do wish the decision had never been made to try to cover a whole book in a single season. There is SO much material to cover, SO little time, and SO MANY entertaining, endearing, and “small moment” scenes that must be sacrificed. That is such a shame. I love savoring the small moments. Besides, after eight books, I still long for more Scotland! It already passes too fast! Today, I felt the need to drag out my old copy of DIA to do some fact checking (it’s been a LONG while), and once I started, I could hardly put it down. So at least it’s true that we DO still have the books. Thank Gabaldon!Dolittle
yay Dolittle! You may have hit the nail on the head with your comments about the arrogance and disrespect being shown to the fans (mostly female) of the basic Jamie/Claire dynamic upon which all the adventure stories are built. Glad you put into words what I was feeling.
Dolittle he actually said in a panel he felt the story was a fantasy and unrealistic so you are correct he has brought his male bias to show us how the story really should be told. This is my first time to ever watch a book made into a series loved the books the series losing my attention. I am very heart sick I will not watch a book to series again it is to devastating.
DoLittle, PREACH. You're so right.
Thanks for the recap - I too had more fun with it than Outlander this week. I much prefer your recap over the one where you were guests [mostly a drunken mess of people talking over each other]. I've read all the books at least twice and I did like Murtagh confronting Claire, I thought that was fine - i'll take as much Murtagh as I can get for as long as I can.So far this season it's as if someone asked what my favorite scenes were in the book, then shat on them, whoops, I mean "fixed" them by changing them into something lame for no apparent reason or omitting them altogether. I've read stuff here and there about RDM not liking Jaime or Sam and was pooh poohing it, but that appears to actually be the case. You asked about non book readers - my boyfriend loved S1 and was excited for S2 but now he's bored and feels sort of deceived by the flashy production and boring plot/dialogue. He gets Finance Guy and Sandringham confused and while no one wants more torture porn, he did say he'd like to see a french Al Swearengen until BJR reappears. Unfortunately, Dougal won't be around for a few episodes and I'm not sure he'll hang in there for the Lovat. So, do all great shows HAVE to go off the rails a bit? There were some missteps in many of my favorite series [Battle Star Galactica, Deadwood, Six Feet Under, Gilmore Girls] but this is my first beloved BOOK series and it's making me very sad.
Not sure what episode list your looking at but you missed a couple which are before the ep titled Faith. Ep 4:La Dame Blanch Ep 5:Untimely Resurrections Ep 6:Best Laid Schemes Ep 7:Faith
Hi Carol and Tracey. Love your analysis. I was hoping that if we HAVE to spend so much time in that darn brothel that we'd get the scene where Jamie comes home covered in love bites (hickeys)and he asks Claire what she'd do if he did cheat. She replies "I'd kill you!" "He's shocked and says he'd kill the man if she was unfaithful not her." Claire replies "Just like a man. Missing the point." Great scene. But I can't imagine the Jamie in the show and TV Claire saying those words. They just seem so remote and pissed off all the time. I'm sad for the changes they've made in the show. Very sad.
That was one of my favorite scenes in the books -- when they fight about the brothel and Claire dumps the water over his head. I love the scenes where Claire and Jamie fight and make up and we see both of their tempers and their passion for each other. Totally not coming through in the show.
Hi Girls! I have so many thoughts about this episode and the series so far, but I don't want to be too repetitive; I agree with much that's already been said. In no particular order, a few observations:- Chapeau IS French for hat. :-) And is 'sark' the word for shirt that you're looking for? Geillie used that a few times.-The costuming and sets are beyond my wildest dreams. It's even more opulent that I imagined. For some reason and possibly incorrectly, I never pictured Claire quite so fancy on a daily basis in Paris. Am I alone in that? Probably. Gorgeous, though! Caitriona is an exceptional, natural beauty. - I fully accept that the show and the books are two different productions. I don't have a problem with story line changes, events changes and character changes. I love seeing the scenery and places come to life. That being said, the staff said they would do their very best to represent the true essence of the story. Jamie and Claire's relationship is that true essence and it's sadly lacking. - I feel the writers of this show are completely dropping the ball by minimizing Jamie's strength of character, dominant personality and sense of humor. Simply engaging his true character as-is would be money in the bank for Starz. Sam can do it, give him the chance! For Pete's sake, we have a whole lot of Frank's back story and more depth in his character, but little of true Jamie. -Conversely, TV Claire is snarkier to me than Book Claire. There's an underlying vibe I get from her that bugs me ... Judgmental? Pissed off? Sarcastic? I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's a different brand than Book Claire's directness and I think it's irritating viewers. I'm not sure if it's the direction, the writing, or Caitriona's interpretation, but I feel a little like a cat being rubbed the wrong way.-It seems as if the writers are applying a bit of late 20th & early 21st century feminism to the story for the sake of political correctness and it ain't working for me. - I'm enjoying TV Murtagh and I like that he's getting some! I wonder if he's taken a cue from what he'd have heard through the walls from J & C's bed chamber over the last months that a lassie can actually like it. Seems so! :-) -As far as J & C not being intimate, I'm ok with that bent of the story if they showed a bit more of the reasoning, that it's because of BJR and Jamie just can't go there. A little of Jamie struggling with wanting Claire and being emotionally unable to cope yet would go a long way.-In the hospital during the diagnosis and splinter removal scene, both my husband and I said out loud, "Why couldn't the patient have just said, 'It's my leg!'" Or pointed, for that matter! I loved Mother Hildegarde and Bouchon. Perfection. -Speaking of husbands, is anyone else's a bit (cough) friskier on Outlander nights? (blushing, ducking and running...) ;-)Have a great week!-Donna in PA
Definitely agree about Claire. She comes across as though she thinks she's better than everyone sometimes. Even the thing with Suzette about birth control--suzette is a grown woman who has lived her life without Claire making decisions for her about her body!
Loved your analysis on the episode! Actually, you guys have me in stitches a lot of the time. I, too, want more Jamie/Claire. Also, am SO excited TURN is on tonite!!!! :-) So happy your videos are back!!! Would be fun to do one on TURN Washington Spies!
Carol- Sark is the word
Love hearing your thoughts on each episode and your pop culture references make me laugh so hard. Just wanted to post as a non-book reader. I think I have some of the major plot points this season figured out(NO! don't tell me!)but when it comes to the subtle nuances of the storyline and some of the dialogue that occur in the books, I don't have a clue. I get that we're not seeing the same Jamie as last season but it doesn't feel "off" to me. In fact, if we were getting the Jamie that I think you're describing, it would feel false (to me)knowing the backstory and WHY they are both behaving the way they are. I'm sticking with it. Yes, this was a little slow moving but my gut tells me it will pay off in the end!
I don't mind when they erase some story threads, but I'm not crazy about the plot changes they'vw made. Jaimie found Fergus on the streets wearing rags. He slept in a closet in the Brothel, he didnt work there in nice clothes. I hope we see Jamie's oath to him. I love Murtaugh's involvement. He was in the book but just in the background. I don't like Marie Louise, AND I can't believe that Claire and Murtaugh found out about BJR before Jaime finds him in the Brothel molesting Fergus. I hope he still finds out that way before Claire and Murtaugh can tell him
Peggy, I think you are wrong about how Jamie found Fergus. Jamie ran into a brothel (with a large sausage, btw) to escape some bad guys. Fergus helped him evade the bad guys. Claire & Jamie run into BJR at Sangrigham's? house at a later time. They discover he is still alive together. BJR does abuse Fergus, but again, that is later. We still may see these things happen in the next few episodes.Linda
OMG LINDA! THE SAUSAGE!!! I totally forgot to mention how sad I was that we didn't get the SAUSAGE SCENE! Maybe they'll work it in somewhere else??
Claire wakes up to find Jamie on the floor playing some game with a little boy dressed in worn but clean clothes. She asks Jamie "where did you get him?" and Jamie tells her "I found him in a brothel". That was a great scene because while they talked about the boy stealing letters Jamie is running his hand up Claire's leg under her skirt. Very nice scene in the book.
It really is all the sweet little scenes b/t J&C that are missing in the TVseries that disappoint us die-hard book fans! I laughed so hard reading the sausage scene in the books, my kids thought I was crazy! I mean, who can't picture the look of horror on Jamie's face?!
Just wanted to let you all know I am reading every one of your comments and am THRILLED to watch this discussion unfold!!! :)
Hi there, I would like to share a "wishful-thinking-thought" that I had - maybe they are showing Murtach and Hanky maid's dalliance because she will fall pregnant! Since Murtach - spoiler alert - will only be with us until the end of the Battle of Culloden, his son can appear many years later in America and played by our beloved Duncan Lacroix! Thanks Carol and Tracey I so enjoy MOP!!AnnetteAthens Greece
Oh yes pleeeze PLEEZE !! We all love our Uncle Murty !
Ok -I am going to try to comment for the Fourth time! Since I don't see any of those other tries, I am going to assume they are out in CyberSpace somewhere! Hah!First of all, love your vids! Look forward to them on Sundays. (The only thing I look forward to from TN is "Things my Husband Says During Outlander", but apparently they don't do that anymore.) I am a book fan who loves the show just as much, and have been mostly happy with RDM's adaptation. I especially loved the added scenes with Frank and Claire after her return through the stones. I always wondered how that might have gone down. This week, I was impressed with the way they had Claire remember Mary Hawkins name from Frank's tiresome history lessons, but when she suddenly had these palpitations about Frank/no Frank it made me wonder why she hasn't brought this up before. She was worried about that in Book 1, and no mention of it in the show. It also took me back to last week when she encountered the Duke (without Jamie) and was informed that BJR is ALIVE!! Ok, why had she not had any thoughts about this since SHE was the one who, very menacingly I might add, told BJR his exact date of death right before he so unceremoniously tossed her out of Wentworth. This seems like a (small, I admit) continuity error. I'm not making a big deal out of though, as there is SOOOOO much material to cover, and some points will most definitely fall through the cracks.SPOILER ALERT!Now, on to my ideal episode for this season. Somewhere mid-way through, can't you just see an episode beginning with Claire in a 20th century hospital giving birth to Brianna while Frank nervously paces in the waiting room? Then there would be a few minutes of showing Claire's anguish at Jamie's absence from this, and Frank's joy and unabashed love for "his" new baby daughter. Then there would be a few minutes with them at home with the baby, and the strain would of course be apparent between them. Finally, Claire would be nursing Bree, and tearfully whispering in her ear, "One day, Sweetheart, you will learn the story of your father and sister." Then fade to France, and Claire is, well, book readers know what happened, so blah, blah, blah, their mission fails, and it's back to Scotland. This will never happen, of course, but I do love the additions that "could have" happened, and I think they flesh out the story more for those who haven't read EIGHT books about these people!Just my two cents. Keep up the good work!CJH P.S. my name is Carla - your site is the HARDEST place to post a comment, which is why I finally had to do it as "Anonymous"
Hi Carla, I'm SO sorry you had trouble posting a comment! Fill me in on what exactly is happening so I can try to help. I have lost a comment once or twice...but that was because I wasn't signed into Google when I commented. But everyone doesn't use Google to post...so that might not have anything to do with your issue. I love your ideal episode as I tend to think up new possibilities as well. SPOILER ALERT AHEAD:One of my favorite - albeit wacky - ideas, is Frank showing up later in the series, admitting that he was able to time travel. He says, "Remember that time I went on that pilgrimage to _____ for 3 weeks? Well actually, I experimented with going through the stones...and here I am." OK try to stop laughing. I'll wait. LOLOL!!! That is super silly...but I'd just love to see something completely out of left field like that happen later on in a future season. Such an A-HA moment!GREAT catch about Claire telling BJR the date of his death. Guess she figured that was nullified when the coos were-a-stompin'!
Oooh! I love your ideal episode too! I love the Jamie:Claire stuff, and I realize he will never travel through the stones, but I also love the 20th century stuff that shows the consequences of all that pesky time travel!
Well, I must say, Episode 7 kind of touched on my "Ideal Episode" wish, with the first scene being "modern day" Claire sharing a sweet moment with Brianna! It totally satisfied, and was the most perfect "extra" material ever! ��Carla
Great idea Annette!Now,to something really important,where can I buy those wine glasses in Colorado?
Great recap as usual!! So funny!! I was not a fan of episode 2 of season 2 but I felt like with episode 3 things were more back on track and interesting once again. I feel like the writer for episode 3 "gets it". That said I still feel like I am waiting for "real Jamie" to appear. The closest thing I felt to real Jamie showing up was the argument he had with Claire after she returned from the hospital. I feel like this season Claire is bossy and acts like his mother. Real Jamie is strong willed, independent, stubborn, smart and capable. He isn't waiting around for Claire...the mastermind... to tell him what to do. When he finally gets angry and speaks up for himself I felt like we got a glimpse of the real Jamie.I love Murtaugh and the direction that his character has taken. I didn't have a problem with him speaking up to Claire...it was a good reminder that Murtaugh isn't their "servant"; he is their kinsman. There is a big difference and I like how that stood out in the episode.I loved the point that Tracey made about Jamie calling her Claire instead of Sassenach. Spot on!! I loved Fergus and Mother Hildegard and Master Raymond. I am hopeful that things will continue to improve...and I think they are. Episode 2 was just so choppy and the dialogue so stilted. Episode 3 is so much better.The Wilford Brimley comment made me die with laughter. My husband is a type 1 diabetic since the age of 8 and we have always found that commercial hilarious. My husband does a great impression of Wilford Brimley's "diabetus". 😂😂Keep up the good work ladies!! Love each recap!!
Just finished watching the last half of your video above, and I can't tell you how much I agree with your assessment of Season 2. The Jamie/Claire thing is beyond disappointing. Carol, I think I was the anon. poster from the second video that you mentioned. I thought I had spoken my piece, but this thing is still just rankling in my mind. I keep going back to the end of Season 1. Specifically, I was astounded that they left out the scene in which Jamie came to her bed, even though his health was so precarious that he didn't know if he could survive it. He HAD to come to her, and they were ONE again. Then, there was the scene of Jamie removing the bandages from his hand and weeping in his gratitude to Claire. I also don't buy the fact that the underground spring presented too many problems to film. With the technology they have today, they could have used the green screen and put in any background they wanted. These three things being deliberately omitted......... well, to me it shows an incredible lack of understanding about what elements of the story are essential. Everything that took place at the abbey, to me was essential to the story. After it was over, I thought, well, they will include some of these elements after they get to Paris. Now, we are on episode three, and there is nothing. No real intimacy emotional or physical. And with Jamie and Claire, the physical is something you can't do away with and be true to the story. Jamie is a warrior of the 1700's. I don't like him labeled with psychological expectations of today. I think he really was stronger, braver, and more resilient than he is now portrayed to be. This was the character Diana wrote. Who has the right to make his something else, something alien. Like you said, Carol, how many more episodes to we have to make this right? Well, it will be or it won't, since it is all in the can, now. My husband won't even watch now. He says it's boring. I wouldn't call it boring, but I wouldn't call it right either.I have loved these characters so much, that I can barely stand it. Jamie in particular is being shortchanged as a character. He is one of the most compelling heroic fictional creations that I can think of. I have loved him for over twenty years since I first stumbled on the paperback. Just had to get this off my chest. Sorry to run on so.P.S. And I recently say Sam saying that the book readers were going to be so happy with this season. Huh?
Linda, you are so right about Jamie being a warrior of the 1700s. He was fighting for France when he was a teenager. He even tells Claire on their wedding night that he has seen men and women have sex from behind but that it was rape. Rape was a tool of war or at least something done after conquering a people. Even when Jamie was raped and he was at that man's house (the man who wore bear skins) that man touched Jamie and realized Jamie had been raped and said something like "Well, at least he greased you" ... as if this was something known was done to prisoners (not that I'm saying in any way that it's not traumatic but it would have been looked at differently in that violent age.) AND Jamie even jokes about not being costive for a while. To take a fiction novel set in a historical time and then try to make it politically correct for today just misses the point in the story. IMHO. I think that they were afraid to show Jamie and Claire having sex so soon after the incident but that's what holds them together so often in the books. Jamie was smart, brave, endured much to save others, he suffered all his life with nightmares but he found solace so often in Claire's bed where for those moments he was at peace. That is what makes Jamie/Claire such a great story.
Anonymous (10:59 AM) THANK YOU for this. I have written so much over the years on this blog, yet I WISH I could get my point across half as perfectly as you just did with your comments/reply. "To take a fiction novel set in a historical time and then try to make it politically correct for today just misses the point in the story. IMHO." Cannot say "Amen" enough. You state exactly what I'm feeling. KUDOS!
Yes! Yes! Yes! Anon. and Carol. And it's not just with respect to Outlander. Political correctness has been running rampant in distorting and rewriting history for years now.
I agree about Jamie being a compelling hero. I am an avid reader of many genres, with a minor in English lit (just because I love it), and with enough savvy to recognize a genuinely unique hero. At the risk of rehashing my comments above, RDM seems to be diminishing Jamie’s qualities (and the J&C relationship) in an attempt to make the story, umm, “better” (i.e., less “romantic”). However, this discounts the intelligence of many female book fans in the process. Stories do not have to be highly geared to the male perspective to make them great, and it is loyal female viewers that this show can most easily count on for ratings and word-of-mouth promotion. Alienating them seems like a poor strategy. I think RDM is backing the wrong horse here, and missing a golden opportunity to introduce a genuinely great (and lovably human) hero to the world of television. And to miss the point that this is not just a great adventure story, but also an epic love story, is a shame. I also agree with you regarding the claims made that some scenes aren’t easily transferred to the screen because “TV is a visual medium.” What the what?!? Every great writer transforms his/her words into visuals inside our heads. It is only the lack of a skillfully descriptive narrative (NOT a problem with Gabaldon) and/or a reader’s own lack of imagination that could keep a person from visualizing a story. You are correct, technology today can compensate for a lot, but even without it, the human imagination can fill in many visual gaps. If Sam could throw Diane off a sailboat in a sound-stage on an 80’s sitcom, and make it look real, there is surely little today that can’t be reproduced visually. Give us a dark room, the glow of a lamp, and a pool of steamy water, and voila! A sulfur spring! I haven’t abandoned all hope. Herself, just yesterday, assured fans over on CompuServe who are worried over the lack of time left to mend the J&C relationship that “it’ll be OK.” So, I’ll cling to that for a while and hope her definition of “OK” isn’t too different from mine. Dolittle
I absolutely agree. It's like they are deliberately changing Jamie for the audience, but we don't want to change him one bit!!
Totally agree...don't know what RDM is thinking. Enough frigging Frank love and STOP MAKING JAMIE LESS LOVEABLE! He seems to have forgotten the essential truth that the true heart of this story is the deep, playful, loving, romantic, sensual relationship between J and C. Sometimes I feel like he's jealous of the attention Sam gets, so he diminishes Jamie's character to get even (yes, I know that sounds a little nuts, but it's really starting to feel that way).I'm not giving up on the series. I get that they didn't deal with J's PTSD last season and, realistically, they had to this season. But like everyone else here, I'm not talking about the lack of sex (although, admittedly, I do miss it!). It's the intimacy that's missing...where the hell is it between them this season? Ok, I'm done with my rant.Oh, and Carol...totally got the donut joke! Watch that cigarette ash and don't break a nail! lololol.
Linda W and Anonymous- You two are so spot on about Jamie. Jamie says MUCH LATER to Claire that it wasn't the physical violation so much as the "soul" violation. And he heals his soul with Claire!!
One thing about Jamie especially keeps coming back to me from this episode that illustrates, to me, the failure to capture Jamie's personality and J&C's relationship. Jamie could ALWAYS tell when Claire was lying. That is a recurring theme, and always made for cute moments between the two of them. And in this episode at the end when she wasn't telling him about Randall, I was waiting for him to say "Sassenach, I know something's wrong, I can hear you thinking from here." I just feel like they haven't focused on the personality of the two characters enough. I don't care if they have the characters face different circumstances than they faced in the books -- but I want them to be the same people with the same personalities as they had in the books.
Excellent, excellent point.And I don't think it's Sam or Caitriona at all. They could both do it if the writers, directors and "show runners" let them.
Beth Wesson has a blog - she seems to be a voice of reason in a sea of negative commentshttps://bethwesson.com/author/bethwesson/
Voice of reason? Everyone has a right to their opinion and just because it isn't favorable doesn't mean it isn't "reasonable".
Does that mean if I am not happy with some of the TV show changes I am somehow unreasonable? I will certainly check out the bethwesson blog because I find the discussions interesting. But my opinion is MINE and it is as resonable as anyone elses.When I purchased then read the books that Diana Gabaldon created the characters that I imagined are unique to me. Not even the author can tell be how to think about the characters or story lines...they live in my imagination. And it is reasonable to assume each one of us comes away from reading the books with different, unique and interesting takes on the stories.I am interested is all viewpoints not just those that agree with me.Theresa
THERESA! Can I get an AAAAAA-mennnn?!? :)
I'm late to this blog but I've been watching this season's recap videos on Youtube. Theresa...you hit the nail on the head with your comment. Thank you.!
Carol, I thought you might like this article. It talks about the costumes and why Claire's dresses are brighter than those around her. I know it was one of your issues in the last episode. http://tomandlorenzo.com/2016/04/outlander-style-useful-occupations-and-deceptions-costumes/Linda L
Thanks Linda!! Tracey mentioned that article as well. (She LOVES Tom and Lorenzo!) I liked this comment: "The result is to make her seem somehow more modern than the other women are; closer to the aesthetics of the 20th Century than the 18th."I suppose I can wrap my brain around that...because my question is more about why she's so bright; not why she's so well dressed. The costuming is stunning...who could say it's not, right? :) I guess I just don't always agree with Claire being colored quite so brightly, considering fabrics/colors people most likely wore in 18th century Paris on any given day while going to the market. I fully blame my "History of Textiles and Costumes" class at Philadelphia College of Textiles and Science for weighing down my brain with such silly obsessing and fashion OCD. LOL! :)
Please know that this is not meant as criticism of this wonderful site or of Tracy and Carol. I love you both and have been a faithful reader since the beginning of the series. But something has been bugging me.Both Tracy and Carol pronounce Murtagh like "Utah" with the last syllable drawn out like "ahh". However, in the series Claire and Jamie both pronounce it like "Merta" with the accent on the first syllable.You are both so smart and so knowledgeable about the series, that I don't understand why you are not pronouncing his name correctly.Thank you.
My own pronunciation of Murtagh's name is similar to Carol and Tracey's, with the emphasis on the second syllable, sounding like "murTah." That is the way it is pronounced in the audio books, narrated by the divine Davina Porter. I suspect many long-time book fans who have listened to Ms. Porter (a HIGHLY recommended treat) use the same pronunciation.
As usual, you two are great and I love your recaps each week. I'm late to the party but here goes. I watched your video late Monday after a long weekend away, so like you do while watching the show, I took some notes, and now don't know what the hell they mean. I think I have to have another hour and a half of you two to make sense of this. 1. Mrs. Roper2. Mr. Mosley3. Mending Kleenex4. Can Murtagh just get some5. Murtagh=Joe AbernethyThat's as far as I got with my notes, but I remember there was some major disappointment with the J and C situation and the missed opportunity of some of the best lines from the book. I tend to lean towards Tracey's side that it's all gonna be ok. There have been some glaring omissions but some clever additions as well, so I'm fine and just grateful for the whole thing - books and TV production. By the way, loved the intro with the lovely goblet.
OMG B!!! I can't believe I didn't think to drink out of that glass in the first two videos! I feel so regal!! :) :) :) Does Mary have more glasses that are similar if Outlander fans want to buy them? And will she ship out of state? I am MORE than happy to blog about Westmoore again if you guys want to send me some pics of Outlander-related goodies people can order!! :) PS - LOL Forgot about Mr. Mosley. SO funny.
I completely agree with you two! Jamie and Clair fight their battles together, and even if they fight in the books it doesn't last more than a few pages.. These people are not the couple we know and love. To be honest the part that bothers me the most is that Jamie don't even care about Clair's pregnancy.. She mentions in the show she suffers from morning sickness, but he doesn't care and it's so out of character for Jamie (who would freak out if Clair gets a paper cut). P.S- Carol you convinced me to watch Turn and it is freaking awesome!!
YEYYYYY :::claps hands::: Isn't it awesome??? I can't WAIT for Monday!! I found a recent pic of the actors who play George, Ben and Benedict...NOT in costume...and it is just so FASCINATING to me to see them in "real life" and then watch them bring the characters to life on screen. SUCH amazing casting!!! :)
Finally got a chance to watch your vid! Y'all are so much fun to watch! I have been thinking about the discussions about the costumes and the direction of Jamie's character, and it hit me that, like Carol said about marriage, it's a constant negotiation. And I was thinking that I could see RDM and Terry D discussing it all, and RDM saying "OK, OK. You can dress Claire however you want, but I get to tone down Jamie's wonderfulness. He makes us mere mortals look bad." Lol. It is sad to see those two (J & C, that is) passing like 2 ships in the night, but I know there have been many times in my marriage where my husband and I have, by necessity, done the same thing... Sick kids and changing diapers don't make you feel sexy, yo? Lol. So I'm in the camp who are hanging in there, hoping for a big payoff later. I want the show to continue because I REALLY want to see my fave book ABOSAA on screen!!! PS. Like Anon above, I started watching Turn on your recommendation, Carol, and I LOVE it!! I live in the south but I'm planning a trip up your way so I can geek out in person at the historical sites! :D
OMG SADIE!!! ISn't it FANTASTIC?!? HOW do we get Tracey to go back and watch?? TURN makes my week!! AND I have to ask - have you read all the Outlander books - past ABOSAA? I want to say something but don't want to spoil. :)
Hey, Carol!! I think young Tracey needs to just TRUST her SISTER on this and just watch!!! LOLOL!! I have read all of the books! I started reading them at the end of last summer after someone told me her friend was obsessed with them and there was also a show! So checked #1 out from the library on my iPad and quickly became obsessed myself! I kept reading (and reading and reading...lol) And I found your blog during The Fiery Cross at the point where *that thing happened* and I was stunned and couldn't believe, so when my fingers could work again I googled it and found y'all! (And was greatly relieved because I wasn't sure I could continue to read if my fears were true... XD. ) That's probably more than you wanted to know..... heehee So, anyway, say what you were going to say!! :D.
Carol you were bothered by the line that Jaimie said about Murtagh saying ladies didn't like it much and felt that that was inconsistent with him and Suzette. This didn't bother me while watching because I remember Murtagh also saying to Jaimie while they were in the brothel that he thought the Frenchmen didn't seem to know how to satisfy there women. I don't remember the exact quote but it was something like that. I thought perhaps Murtagh felt he was "showing" the French ladies how a Scot goes about satisfying the lasses.
UGH GREAT point, Scarlet. Maybe Murtagh was just giving Jamie a hard time and being a wise guy when he told him the women don't much care for it? Or maybe he thinks Scots women don't much care for it but French women do? Different attitudes and all that? I love all these possibilities. :)
We could also speculate that Suzette is experienced enough (and French enough) to advance Murtagh's education in the amorous arts to a more satisfying level :)
I think Murtagh may have had the old fashioned attitude that "ladies" don't much care for sex not women in general.
Carol, thank you for sharing your thoughts! I find too many people in the fandom seem to feel they need to be “nice” about their opinions, and no, really you don’t you can like a thing and not like everything about it.I am getting so tired of other fans telling everyone to “put down the books” or that the “Books and the show are different, get over it”.You know, most of us get that, we really do. We aren’t looking for a scene by scene reproduction of the books, we just want the heart of them, and personally, I’m not getting it, and it seems that I’m not alone. I don’t mind changes, I really don’t, and some of the show changes have been good, but they are often leaving out important intimate bits between Jamie and Claire (and I don’t just mean sex). I’m thinking of the scene at the stones when he tells her he prayed he was brave enough to send her back, at Lallybroch when he said he loved her all along and she was _surprised_, when Jamie thanks Claire for his hand, and even in DIA when chatting about Annalise and Claire is feeling a bit “ungraceful” and Jamie says “Your face is my heart.” Those sweet, tender moments are missed by many of us. And I purposefully didn't re-read before the show so the differences wouldn't be fresh in my mind.And I get that Jamie is still healing, and that they are in a bit of a stressful situation overall…., but are they talking? are they touching? are they bonding over the growing bump? They have been in France for ~4-5-6 months(?) and I am yelling at the screen saying forget about this stupid plot, it’s ruining you, just move to the country and wait it out. I also don’t understand the “Well we have to do ‘XYZ'! it’s in the books, the fans would kill us if we left it out” but on the other side we get the “It’s an adaptation we can’t do it all” I would rather they spend a little less $$$$ on some of the costumes (swan nipples) and sets (some of which we only see for a few seconds on screen) and focus a little more on getting the main characters on track.I also have to say that I’m not sure I trust DG’s reassurances about the show, she gushed about Sam saying “Honeypot”. And yes, he did say it wonderfully (twice!) but the whole scene missed the mark, I’d almost prefer they left it out..This imay sound sexist, but I really think if that scene had been written by a woman it would have been closer to the original intent (note I didn’t say exact reproduction). A man going along with the idea that a bare mound is erotic? Of course. I’ve seen a few comments of “We are only 3 episodes in, give them a chance” and I try, I really try, but I have stopped watching shows that other people love because I didn’t like the first few episodes. I’ve also walked away from books because I wasn’t enjoying them. My time is precious to me, I’m not going to waste it on a show or book I’m not enjoyingLove you ladies, keep on keeping on!Dee
Yes, Anonymous. I especially miss those very scenes you cited. It would not have taken much to include them. They would have added depth to the growing relationship between Jamie and Claire.
DEE! LOVE your comment about your time being precious!! RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT! Life's too short! (AND I'm a Capricorn. Time wasting does not work for us! LOL) :)
One change I don't mind is the expansion of Murtagh's character. In the book, he was dour and gruff, and physically unattractive. Still, he was steadfast and true, someone Jamie could trust and rely upon implicitly. Jamie says of him, "still waters run deep", and we see little hints of his feelings when he asks to see Jamie's brooch and reminisces about his great unrequited love Ellen MacKenzie. I like to think of him as a real romantic, as Claire was surprised to realize. Then, there were the boar tusk bracelets. So, Murtagh devoted himself to the son of his beloved. I had imagined him to be celibate. Jamie was a virgin until Claire and I just thought of Murtagh as not having much interest in sex. Remember his wedding night advice to Jamie that women generally don't like it. This was why I was a little shocked to see him cavorting with the French maid Suzette. Murtagh in the show is a much more attractive man that the character in the books. I found myself being a little glad for him, despite the departure from the book.
May we please take a moment to ponder Stanley Weber's Siberian Husky, steely eyed gaze! Holy Moly. Bring on the Comte.
I agree. But poor Mary Hawkins and Claire, I shudder.
Anonymous is being used so often because it's easy.Last year I only signed up for cable to that I could watch Outlander, I am beginning to regret my decision. I have been trying to get over the fact that I am not enjoying this season. I listened to the TV producers saying put aside the book, give us a chance, allow to us portray these characters in our own way so that we can appeal to a new set of fans. If they are so intent on changing the main characters to achieve this they are at risk of loosing the book fans.I admit that I really enjoyed Ep. 201. Those changes did not affect the story from the book and may have enhanced it. Giving Frank a more developed part is very entertaining and revealing. Also, I'm very much enjoying Murtagh.Claire and Jamie's relationship is the whole raison d'etre. To minimize them as a couple through character assassination is to risk loosing the whole story line. Claire is a strong, intelligent and experienced woman. She is not a shrew. Jamie is a warrior for family and Scotland. He is not a wimp. Playing up the parts of Frank and BJR should not require the lessening of Claire and Jamie. There's plenty of air space for strong characters and good actors. It's a matter of good writing and focus. I agree that Ron Moore might have gone too far. I am breathless in anticipation of the episode written by DG. My rant, my opinion.Claire's clothes are beautiful and they keep me coming back every week. The couple are representing Jarred and spending his money. Don't forget that they are trying to get invited/accepted at court and must fit in. Her shoes and Jamie's boots are to die for. I agree with Terri, she should sell them.Tasting the urine, Claire is a woman of science and uses what is at hand, in this case no lab tests, only finger and tongue.At this point in the story line they have been 3 or more months in France. Why does Jamie still cradle his hand against his chest? To show off his fancy brace or is this an attempt to denigrate him? Very soon he will need all of his strength and dexterity in mortal combat.Jamie is drinking a lot and still functioning. At least this is a true portrayal, he always could hold his liquor.Are all the episodes in the can? I'm worried that it might be too late to recover. Or have I totally missed the point of the changes to Claire and Jamie? For Petey sake, C&J are in love and having a baby. They sound like an old and very cranky couple.
I think my opinion will probably not garner me any "likes" but here goes.. The novel that this season is based on was very long, like all of DG's books are. If you think this book was full of politics wait until the Revolutionary War episodes. Anyhow, the "frontrunner" has only 13 hour long episodes to tell this entire story. He didn't pick this, the STARZ network did. So, that means 13 hours to tell the whole thing. And yet, he and cast are doing an EXTREMELY EXCELLENT JOB and keeping the continuity of the story. Jamie and Claire will never be the same after going through the horridness of Wentworth. Never. A lesser man might have taken the dirk and committed suicide. The whole terrible experience is still with both of them. But, they are both still getting up in the morning and surviving. The Jamie and Claire in the books were not realistic. Ron has made them both very human and 3 dimensional. I hate it when I hear people speculate than Ron is showing disrespect to Sam, when he applauds Tobias's portrayal of Frank. In the books, I didn't give a whit about Frank's feelings. But, in this season, I cried because I could feel the anguish and hopefullness that Frank had when Claire came back. To be able to portray a sadist and pervert like BJ and a kind, gentle man, as Claire calls Frank, takes substantial acting skills!Q!!!I love this show, and everything Ron Moore, et. all has done for it. I just hope that STARZ loosens up the reins a bit and gives us more than 13 episodes next time.
I'm not so sure it is Starz that has put the 13 episode limit on Tall Ship. Prodcution has said that the 16 episode first season was too hard on the cast, especially Cait who was (in Season 1 anyway) in practically every scene.